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RE: Demo Plans

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Paul,

I agree that it would seem that a letter might be able to handle most such
situations.  But then, the real question (as you hint at) is what will the
city permit/allow/require in this regard?

It could also be handled with structural demo plans that show which
structural elements are to be demo'd and if there are any special
requirements that must be done prior to demo (i.e. shoring etc).  I have
actually done this on a project.  My structural demo plans were rather
anemic compared to the architectural demo plans, but that was largely due
to the fact that there were not too many structural elements that needed
to be demo'd.

On the otherside of the coin, I am certainly not advocating that the EOR
stamp and seal the architectural plans or even the contractor's demo
plans.  If there is a requirement for something that the EOR needs to
sign/seal, then it should either be structural demo plans that s/he has
prepared or a letter outlining a review of the architectural demo plans
and the impact of those plans on the structural system.

I can certainly understand why the city would want something...after all,
I am assuming that they want some assurances from someone who is in a
technical, knowledgable postion to make that assurance that the demo on
the project won't result in a large pile of rubble where the building used
to be due to some one removing something that they really should not have
removed.

HTH,

Scott
Ypsilanti, MI


On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, Paul Crocker wrote:

> What you describe sounds like it could be done with a letter.  Does the city
> allow the option to write, sign, and seal a report or letter regarding the
> architect's or contractors plans?  That approach would make it clearer what
> you are considering and what is outside of your scope.  Assuming you did not
> specifically design anything in the drawings or have direct control over it,
> that may be more in line with most states' PE rules regarding stamping,
> anyway.
>
> Paul Crocker, PE, SE
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:54 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: Demo Plans
>
>
> Not necessarily.  You still sign and seal concrete framing drawings even
> though you may not be designing the shoring that may be necessary for
> construction of those concrete elements.
>
> To me, the city may be looking to some sort of documentation that is
> signed and seal by the EOR for the purposes of "proclaiming" that the
> overall demolition plan has been reviewd by the engineer and the no major
> structural elements are being removed without some allowance to support
> what was previously being supported by that elements (i.e. make sure that
> the architect hasn't gleefully chosen inadvertantly remove something that
> could cause a major or minor collapse and thus putting people in harms
> way).  In otherwords, if something does need to be shored, do the demo
> plans call for that fact alone (not ncessarily how it is to be done but
> that it must be done prior to removal of the item in question).
>
> I admit that it can be a sticky, gray area, but then so can many other
> areas of when to seal and when not to.
>
> HTH,
>
> Scott
> Ypsilanti, MI
>
>
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, Gerard Madden, PE wrote:
>
> > Unless you are doing shoring calculations & details, no way do you sign
> > those drawings.
> >
> > -gerard
> > Santa Clara, CA
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Fariborz Tehrani [mailto:fmtehrani(--nospam--at)yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 8:48 AM
> > To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> > Subject: Re: Demo Plans
> >
> > Good question, City plan checking department is asking for
> > structural engineer sign & seal for demo permit. Since this
> > is not a complete demolishing work and would involve some
> > works on existing strutural elements, City has a point.
> >
> > --- Jnapd(--nospam--at)aol.com wrote:
> > > Why are you being asked to sign & seal these plans ?
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Fariborz Tehrani,                      Phone: (310)801-4237Professional
> > Civil Engineer              Fax: (877)743-6206BSCE, MSCE, PE
> > Voice Mail: (877)743-6206email: general@fmtehrani.comweb:
> > www.fmtehrani.com
> >
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