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Re: Florida PE-Bureaucracy

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I don't think that he is expecting anyone to look up his records.  He is
making the reasonable (in my opinion) expectation that if one state
reviews and accepts the records that he supplied after chasing them down
that other states would accept him getting a license in this one state as
proof of his education being adequate.  Now, it could be a reasonable
position that a second state may believe that the first state did not do
an adequate job of verifying the education.  It could even be a reasonable
position that a third state may not believe that the first TWO states did
not do an adequate job of verifying the education.  But, to me, by the
time you get to a fourth, fifth, and so state, it is no longer reasonable
to believe that the education has not be properly verified.  You have
definitely reached a beaucratic level.  Personally, I believe that you
have reached that level at the second state, but leave some room for
others to disagree with me.  But I cannot be convinced that there is a
rational reason for a foreign educated engineer to have to prove his
education to four or more states instead of having those states accept
that the previous states "got it right".  I also believe this for
experience verification and for verification of education for American
educated engineers (all state that I am aware still require transcripts).

In others words, the point is that if you have a PE license, then
supposedly your education and experience have already been verified.  And
since basically all states have essentially the same requirements (with
minor tweaks) for a PE license, then one state verifying the education and
experience and granting a PE license should be good enough for the other

After all, when you want to drive in the state next door, do you have to
go through the whole process (or virtually the whole process) of getting
your driver's license in that state?  No.  In my case, the state of Ohio
assumes that Michigan did its due diligience in granting me a driver's
license and accepts my Michigan driver's license as being good enough.
And I don't even have to pay another fee to Ohio to drive there like I
would if I wanted a PE license in Ohio.  And I have a higher probability
of causing someone harm while driving than I do in practicing engineering,
so the two licenses are at least in the same "ballpark" in terms of reason
of their existence (i.e. protect the health and welfare of the public).


Ypsilanti, MI

On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Stanley E Scholl wrote:

> It sounds to me that you are expecting other states to look up your
> records and forward them to the state you are applying to. It is not
> reasonable to expect others to do your work. And I say again that one
> from India is the last who should complain about bureaucracy. Besides the
> all day trip to mail a package in Delhi, I have had lots of other
> experiences there and they were all way more bureaucratic than anywhere
> in this country.
> Stan Scholl, P.E.
> Laguna Beach, CA
> On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:15:25 -0800 (PST) Padmanabhan Rajendran
> <rakamaka(--nospam--at)> writes:
> Dear Stan,
> My education credentials have been verified by three states (within the
> USA) so far and are available in their files. That is not sufficient for
> Texas Board. Okay, Texas Board may mistrust me, but what is their problem
> with other Boards within the USA?
> Having graduated (BS) from India in 1970, when computerised data systems
> were not widespread, it is extremely dificult to get the transcripts.
> Last time, I was lucky to have someone in Madras (now called Chennai)
> pursue the matter and to part with money as and when required, and even
> then it took 8 months. At the end, my contact had the college send me 10
> copies of the transcripts in sealed envelopes. There is no way I can
> tamper it without being caught in the act.
> Furthermore, there are hundreds of Texas registrants who graduated from
> the same college I came from (Indian Institute of Technology). Through
> them the courses and course contents have been verified hundreds of
> times. So, why is the Texas Board insisting on having it done again? To
> say that it is so because of the rules, which are made by a group of
> people anyway, is nothing but beauracracy. All rules have exceptions and,
> all of us know that rules get bent or broken.
> I don't have a problem to submit my experience data, references etc.
> These are justifiable requests. Why is the Board forcing for information
> it is already aware of? I spoke with the chief (at least, that is what
> the operator told me) at Texas Board (in 1997, I believe) and explained
> to him the above facts, but he would not relent. He simply said, "these
> are the rules". Only a beauracrat, who cannot exercise reason would
> answer that way.
> BTW, I am not envious of anything or anybody. In fact, I admire lot of
> things I have seen in Texas. My critique of an issue is not to be equated
> to envy.
> Have a great 2003.
> Rajendran
>  "Caldwell, Stan" <scaldwell(--nospam--at)> wrote:
> Padmanabhan Rajendran wrote:
> You are assuming that I was grandfathered to a PE
> licence. Far from it. I took the 8hr exam in 1989
> (came to the USA in 1988) and passed in the first
> attempt scoring 93%. When I applied for registration
> with KS, I was asked to sit for the FE exam too!! I
> did that in 1995, 25 years after my BS degree, and
> passed with a 90% score. I had to produce the
> transcripts etc, which I did with strenuous effort.
> All these documents are available with the OK Board.
> However, the documents which OK Board have, are not
> acceptable to the Texas Board. In my opinion, that
> attitude is far worse than the beauracracy you seem to
> have experienced in India.
> Rajendran
> Dear Rajendran:
> Why does every year commence with someone north of the Red River taking a
> cheap shot at Texas?  Envy, perhaps?  The Texas PE Board diligently
> verifies the education and experience qualifications of all candidates
> for licensure, and the burden of proof always rests with the candidate.
> They require original documents because they have been burned more than
> once in the past by scam artists.  They don't discriminate against
> anyone, not even Okies.  It has always been that way.  The rules are
> clearly stated.  Patiently follow them, and be happy!
> Regards,
> Stan R. Caldwell, P.E.
> Dallas, Texas
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