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RE: steel fabricator

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Also, please note that the following Michigan-based firms are certified:

Cardinal Fabricating
CBN Steel Construction
Cox Brothers Machining
Gerace Construction Co.
Ideal Steel & Builders' Supplies
Midwest Steel
Moore Flame Cutting Co.
Moran Iron Works
National Riggers & Erectors
Union Fabricators & Fitters

Plus I know of at least one other large company currently considering
certification.

If you'd like to know more about the certification program, please visit
www.aisc.org/certification. You can find out information about the
certification process, how a company becomes certified, a directory of
certified companies, and information on why you should specify
certification.

Scott Melnick
VP-Communications
AISC

P.S. - Check out the advance program for this year's Steel Conference at
www.aisc.org/nascc.


-----Original Message-----
From: Carter, Charlie [mailto:carter(--nospam--at)aisc.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:53 AM
To: 'seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org'
Cc: Crosby, Chris
Subject: RE: steel fabricator


I've asked Chris Crosby, AISC's Certification Manager, to share his thoughts
on this as well. In the meantime, here are some from me.

AISC certification is a means of the industry maintaining and improving
itself. Certified fabricators and erectors (we don't certify mills) get a
benefit in that they can and most often do become better fabricators and
erectors. That does not mean a non-participating fabricator or erector
cannot do quality work, of course.

The certification process is not easy and demands attention to quality
processes that will make a difference in the product. It's one thing to say
you do quality work as everyone does. It's entirely another to show the AISC
certification auditor that you DO quality work.

My opinion is that, on the whole, certified fabricators and erectors have a
better quality record than non-certified fabricators and erectors. On that
basis, I recommend that engineers specify AISC certification and that the
requirement not be waived.

Charlie





-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 8:55 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: steel fabricator


I would say that it is a personal decision.

As a example, however, having your requirement in the specs in my area
would effectively mean that you would either not get a fabricator for your
project or you would have to find a fabricator outside of the Michigan
area.  This is because there at _NO_ (at least as I recall) AISC certified
fabricators in Michigan.  Basically, all the fabricators in Michigan have
made the choice to not be AISC certified, largely because (as I understand
it) they consider the certification process to be too expensive.  As I
understand it (and Charlie can correct me if I am wrong), AISC certified
mills and fab shops pay a fee based upon how much steel they produce or
fabricate.  In return, the mill or fab shop gets an AISC "stamp of
approval", which I would suppose it to signify that they met some minimum
criteria.  I personally don't know how often their shop is reviewed or
inspected, so I can't really comment on how valuable or not to the
engineer that such a certification really turns out to be.

The end result is that you should be able to still achieve a desired
result from a fabricator that is NOT AISC certified with proper inspection
and other requirements outlined in the projects specs, although I am sure
that AISC may not really like this idea since it potentially puts a dent
in the incentive for shop to get certified (sorry Charlie).  Things like
getting mill certs and making sure that welders are certified are some of
the basic things.  But you also should make sure that the fabricator and
the erectors (i.e. field welders) have weld procedures that spelled out,
that welding material (i.e. welding electrodes) are being properly stored,
etc.  For a fab shop, this can be handled by having a shop inspection done
lone before the project really begins to review storage procedures, weld
procedures, and welding certificates.  Then, you can have some periodic
shop inspections while the fabrication is being done to inspect the
process (i.e. are they really storing the electrodes properly, are they
really using the weld procedures, etc.) and also inspect some end results.
You will also need to decide what things should be inspected both in terms
of shop done weldings, bolting and fabricating and what is done in the
field.  How many and which welds should be inspected?  How many and which
bolted connections should be inspected?  Only slip-critical or also some
bearing connection bolts?

FYI, one of the things that I remember best at the welding seminar that I
attended that Bob Shaw does is that inspection of welds after the fact is
great and all, but to really make a difference, an up-front inspection of
the shop to make sure that they actually have weld procedures (as
opposed to the welder just doing "what I have always done") and proper
storage of electrodes and such is worth quite a bit more.  Some thing like
that has the potential to actually STOP crappy work from occuring before
it happens, which means that you are less likely to be in a position to
reject welds in the future due them being crap and that essentially means
that everyone can win (i.e. fabricator does not need to do work again, the
schedule does not get blown to bits, you don't have to be the bad guy in
rejecting welds, etc).

So, as a side note, I will again offer my recommendation to take Bob
Shaw's course on welding.  It has been by far the best seminar I have ever
taken, especially considering that most schools really don't delve too
much into welding.  Ok, shamless plug mode off.

HTH,

Scott
Ypsilanti, MI


On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Andrew D. Kester wrote:

> What do you think of the following request from a GC for a project we are
> involved on, a design-build?
>
> "Can you delete from the specifications the requirement for the fabricator
> to be AISC certified as per XXXX of the specs. Our fabricator will provide
> mill certificates and welder's certificates and meet any testing agency
> requirements as needed."
>
>
>
>
>
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