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RE: Steel Fabricator

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	You first wrote, "Labor- lots of cheap and unskilled with no unions,
many immigrants also. BUT, this does not mean quality. I think CMU labor
quality and workmanship could not be much worse then here. I don't know if
that is related to lack of union or poor tech schools or poor training in
general. Maybe we do not have enough qualifications for masons. It is not an
art or craft anymore, it is just slapping up brick and mortar."

	Then you wrote that you were asked, ""Can you delete from the
specifications the requirement for the fabricator to be AISC certified as
per XXXX of the specs. Our fabricator will provide mill certificates and
welder's certificates and meet any testing agency requirements as needed." "

	Since the second was a request from a design/build GC with whom you
are working, I assume that you have a relatively cordial relationship - at
least not adversarial as is too often the case with design-bid-build.
However, I think the answer to your second post lies in your distaste for
the quality of untrained work. There is a reason that AISC, AWS, ACI and
others have various kinds of certification programs. There is no
certification without training so one hopes that certification will
correlate positively with better work. I think it does. It is not unlike
being a PE: you are certified that you have some knowledge and judgement. I
am an enthusiastic supporter of training and certification.

	If you took the time to find out for yourself, the fabricator may be
better than a certified fabricator at the same distance from the site, but
AISC has tried to make it so you do not have to take your own time. While I
encourage you to work with the GC, I'd want evidence that the shop could
pass the certification program if they chose. That determination is probably
not in the budget any more than the certified fabricator is.
	James L. Getaz, III, P.E.
	Winchester, Virginia

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