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Re: Use of seal, stamp or title by unregistered person

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The architects having authority and stamping civil and structural
construction documents 
should be open to debate within the articles of the PE and Land
Surveyor's act.  Not each 
and every project is a one story or two story residential project.   
Most Building Departments
in CA  require calculations stamped by a PE, even for simple one story
room addition.    Why 
should  then a person that has no authority in the field of CE,SE or Land
Surveying, stamp plans
for residential, schools, hospitals, commercial and industrial
structures, etc. ?   Are they becoming 
engineers of record (i.e. say for example a site plan for a school or
hospital project)  Furthermore,
is it the building official's or DSA official's who approves such plans 
for construction responsible to 
find out if the architect is competent in the area of Civil or Structural
engineering or Land Surveying?  
Why wait for a failure or law suit?  As far as I'm concerned Engineers
are responsible to safeguard
the life and welfare of the public. 
Any comments are greatly appreciated.
 
Desi J. Kiss, MS, PE
DJK ENGINEERING  
Mission Viejo, CA 92692
http://djkeng.tripod.com

On Wed, 21 May 2003 16:13:25 -0700 "Dennis Wish"
<dennis.wish(--nospam--at)verizon.net> writes:
> Bill,
> I have to disagree with this. As I noted in another post in response 
> to
> this subject, the DCA (I think that is the licensing department for
> Architects) in a personal phone call wanted to make it clear to me 
> that
> the Architect need not have any understanding of the principals of
> engineer so long as he/she has accepted the work of a consultant who 
> he
> or she assumes to have the understanding of the practice. The 
> consultant
> does not need to be licensed or even a graduate in engineering as 
> long
> as the architect has the belief that the engineer is competent . The
> bottom line is that the test does not come until failure occurs and 
> a
> suit can be brought against the Architect by the damaged party.
> 
> Common sense agrees with you and I am adamant against Architects wet
> stamping structural drawings and calculations if they are not 
> competent
> or knowledgeable. However, if they perform their own structural
> calculations and drawings and these are accepted by the building
> official, then you must assume the Architect is competent until the 
> test
> resulting in damage can be proven.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Dennis S. Wish, PE
> California Professional Engineer
> Structural Engineering Consultant
> http://www.structuralist.net
> dennis.wish(--nospam--at)verizon.net
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BCainse(--nospam--at)aol.com [mailto:BCainse(--nospam--at)aol.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 9:48 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Re: Use of seal, stamp or title by unregistered person
> 
> 
> Desi-
> You might want to look at Section 6737 of the Professional Engineers 
> Act
> (Business & Professions Code) which states:
> 
> "6737.  An Architect, who holds a certificate to practice 
> architecture
> in this State under the provisions of Chapter 3 of Division 3 of 
> this
> code (this refers to the Architects Act) insopfar as he practices
> architecture in its various branches, is exempt from registration 
> under
> the provisions of this chapter."
> 
> The Architects Act States the scope of an architects services and it 
> is
> really broad:
> 
> 5500.1.  (a) The practice of architecture within the meaning and 
> intent
> of this chapter is defined as offering or performing, or being in
> responsible  control of, professional services which require the 
> skills
> of an architect in the planning of sites, and the design, in whole 
> or in
> part, of buildings, or groups of buildings and structures.
>    (b) Architects' professional services may include any  or all of 
> the
> following:
>    (1) Investigation, evaluation, consultation, and advice.
>    (2) Planning, schematic and preliminary studies, designs, working
> drawings, and specifications.
>    (3) Coordination of the work of technical and special 
> consultants.
>    (4) Compliance with generally applicable codes and regulations, 
> and
> assistance in the governmental review process.
>    (5) Technical assistance in the preparation of bid documents and
> agreements between clients and contractors.
>    (6) Contract administration.
>    (7) Construction observation.
>    (c) As a condition for licensure, architects shall demonstrate a
> basic level of competence in the professional services listed in
> subdivision (b) in examinations administered under this chapter."
> 
> As a side note, the Architects Act exempts both civil and Structural
> Engineers from licensure as architects.  The pertinent sections are
> attached below:
> 
> "5537.1.  A structural engineer, defined as a registered civil 
> engineer
> who has been authorized to use the title structural engineer under 
> the
> provisions of Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 6700), insofar as 
> he or
> she practices the profession for which he or she is registered, is
> exempt from the provisions of this chapter, except that a structural
> engineer may not use the title "architect," unless he or she holds a
> license as required in this chapter."
> 
> "5537.5.  A civil engineer authorized to use that title under the
> provisions of Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 6700), insofar as 
> he or
> she practices the profession for which he or she is registered, is
> exempt from the provisions of this chapter, except that a civil 
> engineer
> may not use the title "architect," unless he or she holds a license 
> as
> required in this chapter."
> 
> So I guess you could say we are all members of a "mutual admiration
> society." Both the Engineers Board and the Architects Board have 
> rules
> that basically say you can not practice in areas for which you are 
> not
> competent.
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Cain, SE
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Desi J. Kiss, MS, PE
DJK ENGINEERING  
Mission Viejo, CA 92692
http://djkeng.tripod.com


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