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RE: scab structural engineer??

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Thanks for the kind words, sir

dlf

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Narayanan, Ram rnarayanan(--nospam--at)varco.com
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:03:19 -0500
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: scab structural engineer??


It was a pleasure to read thru your post!..

I could see how frustrating the scene can get  an enjoyable technical
problem being turned into an identity crisis betwen two engineers.

I had suffered this agony in the past as a reviewer ... and as an engineer
with a bias to Structural Optimization .. I am always conscious code
requirements reflect as structural weight more by the engineers perspective
of the very cause of loads rathjer than how design meeets code requirements
!

My two cents to your excellent analysis .

Dr Ram S Narayanan
Tuboscope
Houston, TX 

-----Original Message-----
From: dfisher(--nospam--at)fpse.com [mailto:dfisher(--nospam--at)fpse.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 8:50 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: scab structural engineer??


Ladies and Gentlemen:

My office is often approached to provide "second opinions" and peer review
services on projects performed by other structral engineers, due to our
fantastic reputation, no doubt.

But seriously, based on my experience, the need for these services is
usually the result of two things:  

1)   slow response by the original EOR to RFI's, field problems, etc.

(not the situation in George's case, it seems...)

2)   percieved "over design" by someone who typically has no qualifications
     whatsoever to make such a judgement (owner, contractor, sub, etc....)


Like the vast majority of the engineers on this list and in general, we all
have enough of our own problems on a daily basis to take on someone else's
headaches...


What's even worse is when this "second opinion" stuff is taken to the nth
degree, i.e., it becomes a "contest" between the EOR and the "reviewing
engineer"...

who can produce the most economical (cheapest) design?

The EOR, who knows the most about the project and is trying to do his best
while being constantly second guessed and the other guy, who's trying to
justify HIS fee.

(and double the engineering costs...)

ugh...

Anyway, while we have done this for ESTABLISHED client referrals, we do NOT
seek out this kind of work...i HATE IT.

If we are forced into it, we keep it a low profile as possible, make some
recommendations (if any) and be on our way.

I call it the "glass houses" doctrine.


The problem is, with the economy remaining stagnant, underworked "ambulance
chaising design professionals" are out there...ready to pounce on an
unsuspecting firm that takes too long to respond to an RFI.



On another, more morbid topic, we are getting BURRIED (bad joke) with
requests for porch insections...again, i turn these down with the exception
of those for ESTABLISHED clients...

If anyone's office is slow, i suggest relocating to Chicago...there are
enough sh*tty porches here to keep someone busy for years.

Regards,


David L. Fisher
Chicago











Original Message:
-----------------
From: Stuart, Matthew mStuart(--nospam--at)schoordepalma.com
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:19:13 -0400
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: scab structural engineer??


In most states as long as another engineer is working directly for the same
client as the EOR, the Owner/Client is not legally required to notify the
EOR that another engineer is reviewing his work. Your use of the term scab
is very derogatory for this or any other situation in my opinion.

D. Matthew Stuart, P.E., S.E., P.Eng
Senior Project Manager
Schoor DePalma Engineers and Consultants
Manalapan Structural Department
200 State Highway Nine
Manalapan, NJ 07726
732-577-9000 (Ext. 1275)
908-309-8657 (Cell)
732 -431-9428 (Fax)
mstuart(--nospam--at)schoordepalma.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Kester [mailto:andrew(--nospam--at)baeonline.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:22 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: scab structural engineer??

George:

The more experienced members of the list should be able to tell you the
legal ramifications, but to me this is downright illegal to have another
structural engineer performing Construction Admin on a project you
engineered. This is equivalent to plan stamping in my mind, depending on the
amount of his involvement. Is he authorized to make changes and modify
details? This is scary. How does he know all of your design assumptions and
intentions? How does he know the intimate details of the building? If we
were approached to be the SCAB engineer I would tell them that is unethical,
why it is a bad idea, and refuse to perform those services. I don't usually
even answer an RFI on a project for another engineer in our office unless I
am familiar with the job and have his calcs in hand. Even then I would not
make any big decisions without consulting the original design engineer. I
would also thing most building departments, at least the ones that require a
signed letter or detail to be stamped for changes would even allow such a
change. I am further shocked by the architect, a fellow professional who
should understand very well your role, allowing such a substitution.

I may be way off here, but this seems very wrong. It may be something, if
you cannot resolve in any other way, to report to the Board because I really
see something wrong with this. But again, I am assuming the SCAB engineer
takes on full CA duties that I would normally perform on a building, which
includes: shop dwgs, RFIs, field visits, resolving conflicts, detail
revisions, plan changes, modifications, etc.

I definitely would not stand silently by...

Sincerely,

Andrew Kester, EI
Longwood, FL



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