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Re: Future Generations of Engineers

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Attention SEAINT:


With all the traffic on the issue of "FUTURE GENERATIONS OF ENGINEERS"  I think it is time for me to horn into the message thread  with some supplemental information.

I suspect you might take me to task for bringing what follows into this message thread, still it believe it needs to be broadcast.


Several of your are probably ignorant of what is happening  in the  American  [engineering -technology] workplace.

Other are looking at the profession through rose-colored glasses.  You see everything is fine!

The "Jobless Recovery"   is of no concern.   It has not affected me  (maybe not yet) so why so I be concerned.   I have a job!


Many of you have probably read  Richard Weingardt's article in the July Issue of
Structural Engineer magazine  on H-1, L1 visas and outsourcing.  It was a balanced report,  but only scratched the surface.

Some of you could probably care  less about the issue.

Well,   So were many IT  [information technology workers]  three years ago when our government increased the number of foreign temporary (H-1B) visas to 195,000 / year!!

Now hundreds of thousands of IT workers have been fired.

Let me offer the following  information as a resource.

You might find that there are some engineers are questioning the future of [American]  engineering

Could it be that is why American students are avoiding the profession??

Is there a future in AMERICAN  engineering??


I really think you ought to look into this story.

see:    http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/technology/story/689570p-5121850c.html

http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20030131S0024
http://www.theworkcircuit.com/story/OEG20030207S0035

Let me offer the following  additional information.

PROJECT CENSORED, (http://www.projectcensored.org/intro.htm) a group that
has  monitoring the news for stories that the news media ignores, nominated the
subject of Immigration - H-1B Visas  as the tenth most ignored story in 2000.

Please check the following website for the complete story:

http://www.projectcensored.org/stories/2001/

For an additional story  please check  "HUSH-You Must Not Speak it!"
LINK:    http://www.issues-views.com/index.php/sect/2006/article/2078

The scandal you are not hearing about:
http://www.etherzone.com/2002/jack102102.shtml

Is Anybody out there?
Is Anybody listening?
www.rense.com/general35/wakeupNHwakeup.htm



IT workers and ENGINEERS   are AS MAD A HELL!

Layoffs continue in the IT industry.   Fired IT workers  - engineering 
especially those in the electrical engineering profession continue to look
for work  and all the while the H-1b   (temporary worker replacement) 
program continues.  

WHY?


good references:
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB1033503834183711353,00.html

www.calnews.com/archives/guzzardi17.htm
www.ieeeusa.org/releases/2003/020603pr.html

American Engineers at Risk
http://www.ieeeusa.org/forum/issues/H1bvisa/Leaflet1.pdf



But IT professionals,  and ENGINEERS   are   finally fighting back! 

and some news  organizations are finally beginning to report on this issue.
Channel 6  TV-News -  Orlando 
www.local6.com  had an expose'  on the H-1B, L1 visa  issue!!!!!

Link to the archive story   (any other get stories)
http://www.hannatroup.com:81



also see:
REF:
http://digitalmass.boston.com/news/2003/02/06/it_workers.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1226/p02s01-usec.html


INTERNET websites protesting the H-1b visa  program are sprouting.

Chat rooms,  discussion groups have formed attempting to fight the H-1b,
outsourcing programs.   

Angry engineers  are now beginning to speak out!! 

(maybe not structurals  as yet?)


You might want to call it revenge of the techies!!! 


The following is just a sampling of some of the protest  - discussion groups
on the  unemployment,   H-1b issue.

More seem  to be forming each month as word spreads of the scam - sham that
is the H-1b visa  program. 
New concerns over the outsourcing issue are being
raised.


LINKS

http://www.h1b.info
http://www.sunclassaction.com
http://www.h1bprotest.com
http://www.techsunite.org
http://www.nomoreh1b.com
http://www.hireamericancitizens.org
http://www.zazona.com
http://www.Geocities.com/H1BAction/
http://www2.familyinjustice.com:8080/familyinjustice/h1b/
http://www.it-usa.org/
www.toraw.org
http://www.americaonstrike.com/tech-jobs.htm
www.prestwood.com/h1b
www.american-champions.org




http://www.the-cia.net/users/country/sellmain.htm       ( work in Progress)
http://www.outsourcecongress.org:81/ 
www.stoptheinvasion.com/h1b
www.rescueamericanjobs.org

www.americanworker.org
www.goodetech.com
www.freedomcast.com
www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/job.html


http://www.heyhillary-wheresmyjob.com/
http://www.heykennedy-wheresmyjob.com/
http://www.heymccain-wheresmyjob.com/
and there are others!!!!!!




Engineering organization websites:
www.programmersguild.org
www.aea.org


Personal website:   This is a must (tear-jerker) read  !!!!!!!!!!
http://emmons.hannatroup.com:81/~troup/tata/MyStory_20020918.html

This is a tragedy!!
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/5848767.htm
http://www.vdare.com/letters/tl_052103.htm


Messages group:
http://205.180.85.40/w/pc.cgi?mid=13867&sid=7272
http://capwiz.com/ieeeusa/issues/alert/?alertid=435666&type=CO
http://www.h1bvisasucks.com/
http://www.ale.org/archive/ale/ale-2002-07/msg00294.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AmericanWorkersCoalition/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NoMoreOffshore/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LayedOff/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SaveUS_jobs/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AntiH1B/






Search Engine for H-1B  stories!!!
http://h-1b.newstrove.com



pending  (in the works)
http://www.slaveryisback.com/




Commentary on H-1B
http://prestwood.com/community/reference/H1-B_KB_Article.asp
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/04/29/Business/Permit_for_exploitati.shtml
http://www.firstandsecond.com/bw/mag6_page1.html


Will  Code for Food
http://www.homebased-books.com/homeless_HTML_guy.jpg



This is not then end,  but just the beginning.  I think this is a much MUCH
bigger story than many of you realize. I hope some you can review this material. 


Sincerely,


Engr. Robert B. Johnson,  SE, PE

SEAOI  -  Public Relations
f.ASCE   Past member  of Committee on Public Involvement
American Engineering Association
American Engineering Alliance
Tau Beta Pi Association
International Technology Institute
Chicago Committee on High Rise Buildings
American Concrete Institute

The above does not necessary represent the thoughts,  opinions of the many
engineering organization I belong,  but cited only as a reference the degree
of involvement in the engineering profession.    In fact most engineering
societies do not have a position on the H-1B issue with the possible
exception of ASCE,  IEEE.
*
ref:  http://www.asce.org/pressroom/news/pp&res/res477_workeradmissions.cfm
ref:  http://www.ieeeusa.org/forum/POLICY/02July12.html

also see:
http://www.todaysengineer.org/Sept02/capshavings.htm
http://www.todaysengineer.org/Aug02/trends.htm
http://www.tsinoy.com/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=7&Topic=496
http://www.todaysengineer.org/July02/h-1b.htm

http://www.ieeeusa.org/releases/files/Unemployment_leaflet.pdf
Supplemental resources  (just  a few):



Where is NCSEA  or NSPE  on the above????

There Silence will NOT protect them
The time has come
Step forward and be heard
"The world is run by those that show up"  (Richard Weingardt,  SE)
So when are engineers going to show up ???


************************

Here's an older version of a GAO  study   (THAT WAS IGNORED!!!)
GAO  Report: 
H1B Foreign Workers - Better Controls Needed to Help Employers and Protect
Workers
http://www.gao.gov/archive/2000/he00157.pdf
THIS DOCUMENT IS A MUST READ FOR EVERYONE!
**************************************************************


Brain Act Sells out American Workers
http://www.sierraclubbed.com/brain/letter2.html


Congress involved in wage busting!!!
http://www.technotimes.org/010321A.pdf


www.numbersusa.com/PDFs/USA_AD21.pdf




I can  supply many,  many other references!!

It's was has not been a good year for  out-of-work {AMERICAN}  technology,  engineering  workers.



And here are a few more references:


MAKING ENGINEERS LOW-PRICED COMMODITIES
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~unger/IEEE-USA/jobsThreats.html

The Decline and fall of Engineering Salaries
http://dwp.bigplanet.com/engineers/articles2/

ENGINEERS and EMPLOYMENT in the Global Economy
http://www2.siliconv.com/siliconv/archive/holleman1.html
http://24.7.86.152/group/seaint/1995/msg00071.html


How to create a shortage in the Skilled-Labor market
http://www.popstop.org/pages/h1b/nyt_090600.html

The Valley Horror Show:  The Incredible Shrinking Engineer
http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,35726,FF.html


This is just a sampling!!

and here a couple of more  articles to read.

Worker visa Plan spells bad news for Americans
http://www.lodinews.com/archives/index.inn?loc=detail&doc=/2000/September/22
-593-guzzardi.txt

Crime Against Americans
http://www.examiner.com/opinion/default.jsp?story=op.david.1224w

H-1B  -- " BOMBING THE MIDDLE CLASS"
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/2/10/183350.shtml

A SUICIDAL COUNTRY
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/paulcraigroberts/pcr20030226.shtml

CONGRESS FACES DECISION ON VISAS FOR FOREIGN WORKERS
www.townhall.com/columnists/phyllisschlafly/ps20030506.shtml

Downsizing Jobs,  Outsourcing Lives
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32789

Stop Trading the Jobs Away
http://www.nydailynews.com/business/story/86505p-78894c.html

When White Collar Jobs Follow the Blues
www.townhall.com/columnists/phyllisschlafly/ps20030602.shtml

Is Your Job Safe??
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/paulcraigroberts/pcr20030313.shtml

DISPLACING AMERICANS
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33379

WHITHER  THE ECONOMY???
http://newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/7/23/125330.shtml


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In a message dated 7/29/2003 10:48:37 AM Central Daylight Time, dennis.wish(--nospam--at)verizon.net writes:

Subj: RE: Future Generations of Engineers
Date: 7/29/2003 10:48:37 AM Central Daylight Time
From: dennis.wish(--nospam--at)verizon.net
Reply-to: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Sent from the Internet



Stan, my friend, we certainly do live in different worlds - yours in black and white and mine in "blue" - a somewhat wider perspective of reality.

Dennis
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Caldwell, Stan [mailto:scaldwell(--nospam--at)halff.com]
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:01 AM
To: 'seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org'
Subject: RE: Future Generations of Engineers


Dennis:
 
Sometimes, when reading excessively long posts, I skip over something which merits a response.  Your comment (below) is truly sad.  For at least the past three years, the starting compensation packages for entry level structural engineers with MSCE degrees in Dallas has been at or above $50K.  This applies not only to the larger employers, but also to many of the smaller consulting firms.  In addition, Dallas offers affordable housing (<$150K) and Texans still have no income tax.   We also don't have any need for recall elections <grin>.
 
Truly, we live in two very different worlds!
 
Stan Caldwell
 
Stan,

In fact, I doubt that the 10-engineers who work in this valley servicing over 100,000 people has a net annual income exceeding $50,000.00 and the average cost of a modest home has just hit $260,000.00. 
Dennis S. Wish, PE



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