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RE: Pancake Breakfasts - Boy I'm hungry

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To all:

May I suggest that we drop this topic, as I find the inferences contained
within it to be rather "low".  While it may be me being overly sensative,
but I find the inferred implications that Stan participates in
fund-raising activities solely in order to get his company more jobs, etc
to be rather disgusting (and maybe I am missing the point of some people's
intent in their posts...if so, please forgive me...but my percieved
direction of this thread bothers me).  While I might disagree with Stan on
many issues (and not just political issues), I have yet to see any
evidence that Stan is anything less than honorable or ethical.

And to those that don't really like "Pancake breakfasts" (i.e. think that
they are wrong), then I suggest that you NEVER attend an ASCE or SEA
(SEAOC or what ever your local SEA organization is) dinner meeting again.
Heaven forbid that you attend one of these dinner meetings of people who
share some sort of "like mind" with you and "network" with someone who
might be in a position somewhere in the future to toss some business your

Again, I apologize in advance if it appears that I putting words into some
people's mouths that they did not intend, but I thought that a thread that
at least in a very indirect way appears to be a (unwarranted) personal
attack on an individual should stop.

BTW, both "sides" of the political spectrum should be used to a small
minority that controls things deciding public policy against the
overwhelming wishes of the "masses".  Recent examples would seem to be a
Democratic minority (that some would imply are in the "pockets" of
unions) that controls the code adoption process adopting the NFPA over the
overwhelming desire by many for the IBC and the Republican minority (that
some would imply are in the "pockets" of big media business) that controls
the FCC in adopting looser media consolidation limits against an
overwhelming public opposition to looser limits.


Ypsilanti, MI

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Dennis Wish wrote:

> What's the matter with you, Gerry. How can you be ethical and moral in
> today's society?  Well, for my money - I am glad that you are because if
> more engineers who take moral and ethical responsibility for the type of
> work they do (as Paul Feather appears to) then we might have our codes
> and jobs doing more for the public than they do today. This is a time
> when large business controls the professional associations. In our
> profession, we actually came out on the short end of the stick. Davis's
> cabinet contained two members that were pro-labor and they supported the
> NFPA code adoption as it favors the fire fighters. However, they also
> adopted the IBC for residential construction which worries me as I am
> not aware of the differences between the two.
> Governor Davis may not have been aware of this, but there is a class
> action suit in the progress to overturn the NFPA adoption because of the
> violation of fair act by votes made by the two employees on Davis's
> staff.
> Sorry if I sound a bit vague - I read one of many articles yesterday
> that discussed these allegations.
> Dennis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerard Madden, SE [mailto:gmse(--nospam--at)]
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:12 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)
> Subject: RE: Pancake Breakfasts - Boy I'm hungry
> I just don't think it's appropriate to grease politicians palms to try
> and get work. That's my personal opinion only and perhaps just me
> burying my head in the sand as to how things really work. Doesn't mean I
> should participate in something I find wrong.
> This is the wrong avenue to raise awareness of our role & contribution
> to society. It is not a republican-democrat thing either. As
> professionals, we should be above this, especially when acting as an
> agent of your employer. As a private individual, go ahead and try to
> elect whoever you want.
> Wasn't trying to set anyone straight, just pointing out the true
> absurdity of such an event - it's just a big "lets just kiss each others
> ass" session and get our guy in.
> I'm wondering if Stan's next recipient of a maple syrup "donation"
> favors the IBC or NFPA code???
> -gerard
> Santa Clara, CA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Feather [mailto:pfeather(--nospam--at)]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:28 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)
> Subject: Re: Pancake Breakfasts - Boy I'm hungry
> I am amazed at times at the dichotomy of our perceptions, but then I
> always have been so damn naive.
> Let me see now....  Engineers do not have proper recognition in society,
> "We ain't go no respect", and how do we know? Well, we are not
> compensated adequately enough, there isn't enough VALUE$$ placed on our
> services.  But then, that's just money.
> Want new school construction, better pass the bond, but remember you may
> have to pass on that new homeless shelter.  You want the new street
> widening and downtown redevelopment or the new Fire Station?  You want
> more cops on the street or an overdue increase in pay for public school
> teachers?  Money is the bottom line in our society.  Somewhere in the
> past we evolved a system where every choice and option can be reduced to
> a relative $$ figure in order to weigh the cost benefit and choose
> between otherwise incomparable allocations of the public resources.  How
> we (or our elected officials) decide to spend it reflects the values and
> morals of our society.  Or at least that part of the society that
> bothers to voice an opinion.  What does a political opinion cost these
> days anyway?  Damn glad I don't have to pay any attention to who gets
> elected or what their values are... I might have to sully myself by
> recognizing that there is money involved.  Good thing I'm a realist.
> Well good thing you set me straight on the whole pancake breakfast
> thing.  I probably wouldn't fit in anyway.
> I best get back to trying to earn a living.
> Paul Feather PE, SE
> pfeather(--nospam--at)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gerard Madden, SE <mailto:gmse(--nospam--at)>
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:57 PM
> Subject: Pancake Breakfasts - Boy I'm hungry
> Paul Feather wrote:
> There are a few posts over the years that I print and store in a file
> for reference; one of these was a post of Stan's regarding salaries,
> position, and marketing. If I am ever in Dallas, I might even try to
> have Stan teach me how to throw a pancake breakfast.
> ****
> I think the choices at the breakfast are blueberry or hanging-chad
> pancakes. Texas Style (big as the plate they're served on). I think the
> main requirement to throw the breakfast is money, a good back slappin'
> technique, a firm handshake, the ability to laugh loudly at lame jokes,
> a real drive to make the community a better place for all, friends with
> money, and oh yeah, I almost forgot, more money. You could hand out
> buttons to pin on everyone's shirt with your engineering seal on them
> next to an American Flag.
> I prefer Denny's original grand slam: $2.99 but they phased out the
> funny robot mask I used to wear all day with the eye sockets and mouth
> pop outs so I could stick my tongue out at my sister when my parents
> weren't looking. Now my kids get 1 crayon if they are lucky. Ah, the
> good things in life.
>  -gerard
> Santa Clara, CA

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