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RE: Pancake Breakfasts - Boy I'm hungry

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Gerard,

I have no objection what so ever to you no agreeing with the method nor
voicing such disagreement.  I do, however, object to it being referred to
as a "favor for a favor".  That directly implies some quid pro quo (i.e.
that Stan actually gets definite work for his company for supporting a
politician) and I have yet to see anything that resembles proof of such a
claim.  Stan's comments were to the effect that one possible "positive" of
such "meet and greet" sessions were that "...we might even get on his
radar screen for future city projects."  I see NO WAY to interpret that as
being that "I have gotten city projects cause I greased the wheels of a
politician" and, thus object to such an implication as it is remarkably
close to what I would consider slander (intended or not...again I
apologize if I am putting words in your mouth).  What Stan described is
not that much different that attending some engineering/architectural
organization's dinner or annual meeting and participating in "networking"
there.  When I have attended annual meetings (TMS annual meetings, BSSC
meettings, SEI Structures Congress, AISC annual meeting), part of my
reason is to get to know others in the field with the intent of the
(admittedly remote) chance of future work (there are many other reason as
well, but this IS a factor).  This is also true to some degree for local
ASCE dinner meetings (although since most are traditional civil types, the
likelihood of future work through them is rather small...that and I am an
officer of the local branch so I typically should be there is I can).
Additionally, as someone else pointed out, both the local NSPE
branch/sections (much more "active" politically) and the local ASCE
branch/sections (less so than NSPE/MSPE) hold sessions every once and a
while in which local or state politicians attend so that we can voice
concerns to the engineering population.

The end result is that I have no problem with you not agreeing with the
method...admittedly, it is not really my cup of tea either (maybe because
I am "anti-social"...Stan has told me I need to get out of cyberspace and
into the real world...he just hasn't told where that is yet! <grin>).  I
do object to the idea that Stan has done something wrong without something
to back up that claim (and yes, making a donation for the express purpose
of definitely getting work in return is wrong).

HTH,

Scott
Ypsilanti, MI


On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Gerard Madden, SE wrote:

> Be disgusted,
>
> Check out his post on 2/18/2003 (Subject: Etiquette). Stan clearly
> explains his position and if that's okay with stan then good for him. I
> don't agree- that's all. He calls his method "Networking" ... I call it
> "a favor for a favor."
>
> Don't try to shut others up-this is America! If we can't discuss stuff
> openly among ourselves, then why have this list? We don't always need to
> agree and praise one another- I am 100% sure that Stan has lost not 1
> second of sleep based on my comments.
>
> -gerard
> santa clara, ca
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:26 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: Pancake Breakfasts - Boy I'm hungry
>
> To all:
>
> May I suggest that we drop this topic, as I find the inferences
> contained
> within it to be rather "low".  While it may be me being overly
> sensative,
> but I find the inferred implications that Stan participates in
> fund-raising activities solely in order to get his company more jobs,
> etc
> to be rather disgusting (and maybe I am missing the point of some
> people's
> intent in their posts...if so, please forgive me...but my percieved
> direction of this thread bothers me).  While I might disagree with Stan
> on
> many issues (and not just political issues), I have yet to see any
> evidence that Stan is anything less than honorable or ethical.
>
> And to those that don't really like "Pancake breakfasts" (i.e. think
> that
> they are wrong), then I suggest that you NEVER attend an ASCE or SEA
> (SEAOC or what ever your local SEA organization is) dinner meeting
> again.
> Heaven forbid that you attend one of these dinner meetings of people who
> share some sort of "like mind" with you and "network" with someone who
> might be in a position somewhere in the future to toss some business
> your
> way.
>
> Again, I apologize in advance if it appears that I putting words into
> some
> people's mouths that they did not intend, but I thought that a thread
> that
> at least in a very indirect way appears to be a (unwarranted) personal
> attack on an individual should stop.
>
> BTW, both "sides" of the political spectrum should be used to a small
> minority that controls things deciding public policy against the
> overwhelming wishes of the "masses".  Recent examples would seem to be a
> Democratic minority (that some would imply are in the "pockets" of
> unions) that controls the code adoption process adopting the NFPA over
> the
> overwhelming desire by many for the IBC and the Republican minority
> (that
> some would imply are in the "pockets" of big media business) that
> controls
> the FCC in adopting looser media consolidation limits against an
> overwhelming public opposition to looser limits.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Scott
> Ypsilanti, MI
>
>
>
>
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