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RE: SE Tests

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I disagree with you on one point, Scott.

If you took on any work that you were not competent in, regardless if
you were licensed to do so, I think that's not only unethical but
probably illegal as well. This includes designing wood structures if
you've spent your whole professional life designing steel and concrete
structures. That's one of the problems with the Civil license; it's so
broad.

The ONLY reason I have a civil license is because I had to get one (and
maintain it) in order to qualify for the SE title. If I had my way,
Structural would be a practice (not a title) her in CA and I would forgo
my Civil license altogether (as I have for my Arizona license).

Regards,

T. William (Bill) Allen, S.E. (CA #2607)
V/F (949) 248-8588
San Juan Capistrano, CA
http://members.cox.net/ballense/

:-----Original Message-----
:From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
:Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 4:04 PM
:To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
:Subject: Re: SE Tests
:
:I would tend to look at it the other way...the person who is a PE 50 ft
:across that state line that is "licensed" by way of the PE to do
:structural work may not really be qualified to do such structural work
:because they specialize in environmental engineering work.  How does
:someone else know this if they go to hire this person?
:
:In otherwords, my PE license in Michigan basics gives me the license to
:practice civil engineering...any area of it because there is no
:SE/speciality licenses in Michigan.  Now, since I have only done (and
only
:have an interest) in structural work, I would not do somethig in
another
:area of civil engineering.  But, I could.  Now, someone will say that
:ethics rules (assuming that there are some in place in the state and
they
:are enforcable) would stop someone.  But, then maybe not.  After all, I
:have a civil engineering education and took the civil engineering exam,
so
:would I really be violating any ethics to practice in another area of
:civil engineering.  After all, I am not required (nor expected) to get
a
:seperate "set" of 4 years of experience in wood design before I could
:ethically do wood design, am I?  So, why would I need 4 more years of
:experience in another area of civil engineering to practice in that
area?
:
:Now, let me be clear...I personally would not "practice" in another
area
:of civil engineering mainly cause I have no desire to do so, but also
:because I would not have a comfort level that satisfies MYSELF.  But,
it
:seems to me someone could do so and still be ethical.
:
:That is why I like the idea of a seperate SE license.  Are they lots of
:PEs in Michigan, Indiana, Iowa and other neighboring states of Illinois
:that are likely more than qualified to practice structural engineering
in
:Illinois but don't have a SE license there?  You bet.  But there are
just
:as many, if not more, PEs in those states that aren't qualified (not
:because they aren't smart, but rather just don't specialize in that
:are) but can legally practice structural engineering in there own
state.
:
:From my experience, most that practice structural engineering rarely do
:work outside of that area.  Thus, it makes a lot of sense to have a
:seperate SE license.
:
:Now, you can debate whether the required exams are overkill or
underkill
:or just right for the Illinois SE.  Personally, I think that the PE
level
:NCEES exams (Civil or Struct I) don't really "cut" it.  Basically, to a
:large degree, either the Civil or Struct I exam could (and to a large
:degree should) be able to be passed by someone who just graduated from
:school with no work experience.  They mainly cover basic "theory"
:problems, and have rather limited "real" world exposure (i.e. code
:application).  I personally feel that the Struct II exam is a more
:appropriate exam.  It requires a more detailed knowledge of specifics
that
:come from code application PLUS theory, while not being overly
intensive
:(nor time constraint based...you can actually finish the problems in
:plenty of time).  But then that is just my personal "geeky" opinion.
:
:Regards,
:
:Scott
:Ypsilanti, MI
:
:
:On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 GSKWY(--nospam--at)aol.com wrote:
:
:> The word "political" with reference to an Illinois SE license was
used in
:the
:> sense that there doesn't seem to be a logical reason to require an SE
:license
:> for many of the designs where it is required in Illinois.  These same
:(and
:> much more complex) designs are done just fine by PEs 50 ft across
state
:lines.
:> I don't have any opinions on the matter - feel free to substitute
:whatever
:> word you want.
:>
:> I would note, however, that an SE designation means one has the
skills
:tested
:> for on the SE exam.  It does not necessarily mean that one is any
more
:> qualified than a PE in certain types of construction, for example
post-
:tensioning.
:>
:
:
:
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