Need a book? Engineering books recommendations...

Return to index: [Subject] [Thread] [Date] [Author]


[Subject Prev][Subject Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

My opinions to your points:

First Point - I disagree. Just because we did things a certain way a
hundred (or four hundred) years ago, is that justification for doing it
now? I'm not (yet) saying "close the door", but I would like to see
tighter immigration, keeping illegals out (better, much better than now)
and more restrictive immigration laws just because we don't have the
resources we did a hundred years ago. The more people we let in, the
less we have. You probably have an idea of what I think about Davis
giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens. Yes, I'm already here, been
here a long time, but that shouldn't matter. I don't feel guilty for it.
Even the American Indians immigrated here.

Second Point - I agree. Yes, we've exploited cheap labor. All
civilizations have done it. I don't think how we treat unskilled
laborers now is as bad as it was in the past. From what I understand,
the overseas factories we support provide the "locals" with a better way
of life than they would have had if we hadn't gone there, albeit nothing
like what we would call "acceptable" here. Should we look into child
labor and quasi-slavery issues? Absolutely. But we not as bad as some
(labor unions?) would have us believe.

Third Point - I agree and disagree. If an immigrant can come in and
improve MY standard of living, I say let 'em in. If an immigrant lowers
my standard of living, I say keep 'em out. FWIW, the H1Bs I personally
know have improved MY standard of living. They make a LOT of money and
pay a LOT of taxes. This is a Good Thing (tm). But, I wouldn't want to
let in anyone who wanted to move here, just because they have a skill.
We're running out of room and precious resources.

Fourth Point - If I understand it properly, I agree in concept. If
Americans lose jobs because of factories moving overseas, then they
should wake up, smell the coffee and learn another, higher paying trade.
This is akin to the Luddites who revolted against the Industrial

Fifth Point - I agree. No debate.

Last Point - I agree. Again, I have no problem with H1Bs in concept as
long as there are limits on the numbers. I don't even care if they "jump
in front" of the line, because they are exhibiting the entrepreneurial
spirit we seem to attract and thrive on.

In summary, we don't owe anyone, except American citizens, anything. We
should act in our own best interests first and foremost. While my macro
economic skills are pretty weak, I believe that a global economy is a
good thing for us, even though there will be pains to get there.

Just think back to the 70s when Richard Nixon took our currency off of
the gold standard and put it on the world market. Can anyone imagine
that NOT being good for us?

Just my viewpoint.

T. William (Bill) Allen, S.E. (CA #2607)
V/F (949) 248-8588
San Juan Capistrano, CA

:-----Original Message-----
:From: Michael L. Hemstad []
:Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 11:16 AM
:To: seaint(--nospam--at)
:OK, Dennis, I hope you've got your asbestos whities on.
:You wrote:
:  "This employee took the work away from an American Citizen as was
:evident in the fact that he is now permanent and is living the American
:dream at the expense of another citizen."
:Let me point out a couple of things.
:First, unless you're carrying a lot of Native American blood, I have a
:hard time with an attitude that amounts to "I made it in; quick, close
:the door."  We are a nation of immigrants.  My grandparents spoke
:Norwegian in their homes as children.  If some guy who speaks Punjab or
:Somali wants the same things for his kids as mine have, and has a skill
:set to contribute to our society, GREAT.  Only a hypocrite would try
:stop him.
:Second, our nation has always exploited immigrants for cheap labor.  In
:exchange, they got freedom and opportunity.  They didn't resent it;
:fought to come here.  Why should that change just because it affects
:someone you know?  What's different about now versus a hundred years
:Third, we have one of the highest standards of living in the world.
:Quit whining about how much we're hurt by immigrants.  The whole world
:envies us.  Who can blame them for wanting to move here?  If they can
:contribute, let them in.
:Fourth, I tend to believe Dave Fisher when he says he has a hard time
:hiring someone.  When he says he pays this former H1B guy more than
:prevailing wage, to me the argument is over.  It doesn't sound like he
:took anything at the expense of anyone.  Your argument is that ANY
:American citizen should have right of first refusal to any job.
:Bullshit.  Qualifications and drive still matter.
:Fifth, the labor unions in this country have grabbed way too much power
:in way too many cases.  In their sway, competence and ability no longer
:matter; just seniority and union dues.  Now they have to compete.
:10 years ago we were moaning and knashing our teeth over the auto
:companies and their falling market share.  When they finally figured it
:out and got off their butts, they turned it around.  I own a Ford van
:that's a piece of junk, and a Toyota Camry that runs great.  I feel no
:obligation to buy another Ford, made half as well by guys earning twice
:as much.  We can compete; we just don't want to.  Yes, we will see some
:bloated corporate profits and some abuses.  You know what happens to
:those profits?  Most of them go to stockholders.  Like me.
:Last (hold your applause), what effect do you think this employee has
:us?  He is now a tax-paying American consumer.  That means he is
:providing jobs for other tax-paying Americans.  He is responsible for
:expanding our economy.  Good for him.
:OK, flame off.
:Mike Hemstad
:St. Paul, Minnesota

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at:
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers 
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To 
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at) Remember, any email you 
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted 
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web 
*   site at: 
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********