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RE: SICK PROFESSION

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Scott and Roger,
Roger, I believe, was speaking of immigrants into this country who came
in legally as my family ancestry had. I think that you miss a couple of
points on this issue of protectionism.

1. In my opinion most of Europe is Anti-Americanism (not anti-America).
This has nothing to do with current politics so don't misunderstand.
Robert Ludlum who had written fiction based his books on facts. There is
a growing need to create a European Union that is led by France and
includes Germany, Spain and other countries in Europe who tend to want
to see Americanism as less predominating in the world. Most nations rely
upon America for many different reasons and if American fell to an
enemy, the results would be far reaching. For this reason, many of the
European nations (in my opinion only) wish to be independently strong
and free of Americanism. 

2. It is also my belief from reading that most countries are segregated
with the exception of Great Brittan who has a growing amount of
resentment among its people against East Indian and other cultures that
have grown in England. France is very protectionism, but much of their
economy is socialistic. Because of this, there is a tendency to avoid
immigration from America. I do have a cousin living in France, but she
could only do this through marriage. What I do know of the Anti-Semitism
and protectionism of France comes from my neighbor who is French and has
a home there and here.

We are a fairly integrated society - a melting pot and we protect this.
Protectionism in the U.S. is not intended to protect any one culture or
religion - it is intended to protect American Laborers who are citizens
of this country whether they gave their oath today or through their
great grandparents one hundred years ago. 

You are correct that by protecting industry and wages in this country
will cause international problems. I agree with this as many of the
large companies moved their corporate offices outside the U.S. and this
becomes one of the first signs that industry started in the U.S. is
easily sold off to the highest bidder.

So who is it that is causing industry to move out - it is the
shareholders of the stock of these publicly traded companies that will
only hold their shares as long as profits meet reported expectations.
For this reason they need to develop lower paid wages in countries like
Liberia and Libya which may be the next resource for low income wages.

What we need to do in this country is not listen to me regarding the
H-1B issues. You need to research them out and read them for yourself.
How can you support anyone in congress without understanding the issues
they represent and whether or not you agree with them. I've read a lot
of replies that say "So I understand" or "supposedly the H-1B policy
states". You need to read and interpret this for yourself the same way I
did and I did the same by reading the NAFTA agreement and attending
seminars on the topic. NAFTA is wrong and has been proven not to benefit
the workers that it originally promised a better life. This is the
reason why there were riots at the World Trade Conference both in
Seattle and in Cancun. Each of us needs to be educated on these issues
before they overtake us in business.

I've said it a number of times, there are creative solutions to the
problems related to labor and we, as a professional community, should be
seriously investigating the alternatives rather than waiting until it is
too late.

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu] 
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 4:47 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: SICK PROFESSION

Roger,

Thanks for the added perspective that was also going through my head,
but
lacked the courage to articulate it.

I would add another perspective...

And how many foreign workers can get a job in their own country because
there are American's their in those jobs?  How many foreign companies
lose
work in their own country to U.S. companies?

Protectionism is all fine and dandy, but if we fully "implement" it,
then
what stops other countries from do the same?  What would happen to a lot
of the products that are sold outside of the US?  What would happen to
those American's who are employed about outside the US?

Like it or not, we are in a global economy.  There will be US workers
who
lose jobs on our own soil due to foreign workers.  There will be US
workers who lose jobs due to companies shipping them overseas.  But,
hopefully there will be just as many Americans who get work overseas or
get jobs here when companies send jobs here.  Does this mean that
everything is on the "up and up" and that we can just sit back and have
a
beer (or a caffience free Coke in my case)?  Nope.  There will be abuses
and corruption that will need to be watched for and dealt with.

Regards,

Scott
Ypsilanti, MI


On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Roger Turk wrote:

> I have started to respond to H1b threads on several occasions, but for
one
> reason or another decided not to send the response.
>
> Do we forget that this is a nation of immigrants?  All of us,
including the
> Native Americans, came from somewhere else.  Maybe our ancestors came
because
> they were explorers; maybe they came because this was a land of
opportunity,
> maybe they came because they were oppressed in their native country.
>
> I am a second generation American.  My grandparents came to this
country in
> the late 1800's from Lithuania, Poland and Germany for the same
reasons that
> people before and after have come here.  I welcome people who are
courageous
> enough (or oppressed enough) to come to a country whose language is
foreign
> and whose customs are strange to make a new life for themselves, their
> family, and particularly their children.
>
> No matter how skilled or learned our new immigrants may have been in
their
> country of origin, they have to start anew here.  Many have had to
take
> menial jobs until they learned the language, customs or procedures
that were
> all too familiar to them in their native county.  They are willing to
work
> for low wages because of the opportunities that await them.
>
> How can we forget that we, who have been born here, have spent more
than 20
> years learning the English language, yet many of us still are not
competent
> in expressing ourselves, cannot spell correctly, use incorrect words
and
> cannot punctuate or capitalize correctly.  Why do we fault people who
have
> only been here a few years for making what may be literal translations
into
> English?
>
> I, for one, welcome these newcomers to the USA, the land of
opportunity, and
> wish them the greatest success as many of those who have preceded them
have
> achieved.
>
> A. Roger Turk, P.E.(Structural)
> Tucson, Arizona
>
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