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RE: H1-B -Abusers

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Enlightenment is not always enjoyable. I am glad you went to the site and I hope others do too. This topic (and all of the sub-topics surrounding it) have created credibility for the argument. But let me ask you one final and important question. The SEAINT Listservice is created with limits. Those who have legitimate complaints can bitch and moan, but nothing comes of the issues – they don’t get resolved and we end up feeling like lambs to the slaughter. So how do we overcome the limitations? I really want to know. I created the Structuralist.Net in order to circumvent political policies that forced engineers with disagreements to actually resolve the issues with the help of SEA. Instead, I made some wrong choices and had my site wiped out twice and have not had the time to rebuild it. So what do we do – with the exception of Stan so far the majority agrees that the profession has a sickness that needs to be cured, but we don’t have a cure or the political pull to make the change.


Give us some ideas and help – anyone!!!!!


Dennis S. Wish, PE



-----Original Message-----
From: Gerard Madden, SE [mailto:gmadden(--nospam--at)]
Monday, November 10, 2003 6:57 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject: H1-B -Abusers


I went to the website Dennis posted for H1-B hires. One of the biggest engineering firms for Tract Homes in Northern CA has had 6 to 7 H1-b employee hires with all making 35,000 or less per year. Some are listed as “Structural Engineer”. CLA (Chien Lee Associates ) should be ashamed of themselves ! This is in San Jose, CA-Silicon Valley, where the cost of living is right there with San Francisco and New York City. Way to go you cheapskates !!! 


I found my friend’s hire data, 46 grand for him, better than I was getting before I got my PE license (pretty sad for 4 years of college and a MS degree though) … but now things are much better…. Gotta have ownership to live semi-comfortably in this line of work.


I’ll never forget the day I got my first engineering job… my dad almost killed me when I told him what I was going to make. All of his employees, with no education, would be making nearly double what I would. He thought I was a terrible negotiator, but I told him it was the going rate (about what Stan was hiring for his recent grad) of course, mine was in 1995 four years earlier.


Maybe collusion isn’t such a bad thing…. seems to have worked well for power, oil, medical insurance, and cable companies. I even think oil companies have these little “accidents” or supply shortages purposely to jack up the price of gas. It’s all just a big conspiracy by The Man.


Our profession is in trouble. Fees are too low making compensation too low to attract new generations from this country. When I graduated from college, there were 42 civil engineers in my graduating class (went to a school with 5,000 undergrads)… last year, 7 grads in civil engineering….


How much would you charge for a new 1 story warehouse building (say 30,000 square feet) in a seismic zone 4, on conventional spread/strip footings, with a design-build panelized roof?  Inquiring minds wanna know?




Gerard “Jared” Madden, SE, PE

California Licensed Structural and Civil Engineer


Madden Engineering

2183 Eaton Drive

Lodi, CA 95242

T: 209.368.9955

F: 209.368.9966

E: gmadden(--nospam--at)