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RE: H1-B -Abusers

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Dennis:

My advice (not that you will like it) is that you have to work the system.
It may be a crappy system that is stacked against you, but that is your
best bet.  From my observation, you tend to get fed up with the crap and
politics and people ignoring, and then quit in protest.  I may be wrong in
this, but this seems to be the case with SEAOC and maybe a few other
situations.  If you want to get anywhere, it will take time...lots and
lots and lots and lots of time.  It will take being persistant.  And it
might even take being outspoken, even to the point of being a "pain in the
butt".  I don't see that as being a problem for you...and I say that with
all due respect and admiration...you have passion and fire and are
willing to speak your mind.

You mention that the "majority (except Stan)" agrees with you...that is
nice.  But, are they willing to ACT with you?  That is the real question.
I don't blame you for punting in the past.  It take lots of effort and
work to change the world.  Thus, if you don't have people willing to work
with you, then you only tire yourself out.

I will be the first to admit that while there are many things that I might
agree with you on (but not always how you go about charging into battle on
those issues), I don't really have the desire on any of them to ACT.  Part
of it is that to some degree I don't see the problems as being too severe.
Part of it is that I am lazy.  Part of it is I have other battle that I
consider more important to which I devote my time to.

Personally, I think that there will be changing the profession in response
to many of the issues that you are passionate about.  The question is will
any of this action be in a timely manner.  After all, Congress _KNOWS_
that a problem is coming with regards to social security, but they cannot
get their act together to deal with the problem and likely won't until the
last minute, possibly when it is too late to do anything effective.  Why
should we structural engineers be any better, even though we are smarter
than politicians?  ;-)

Regards,

Scott
Ypsilanti, MI


On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Dennis Wish wrote:

> Gerry,
>
> Enlightenment is not always enjoyable. I am glad you went to the site
> and I hope others do too. This topic (and all of the sub-topics
> surrounding it) have created credibility for the argument. But let me
> ask you one final and important question. The SEAINT Listservice is
> created with limits. Those who have legitimate complaints can bitch and
> moan, but nothing comes of the issues - they don't get resolved and we
> end up feeling like lambs to the slaughter. So how do we overcome the
> limitations? I really want to know. I created the Structuralist.Net in
> order to circumvent political policies that forced engineers with
> disagreements to actually resolve the issues with the help of SEA.
> Instead, I made some wrong choices and had my site wiped out twice and
> have not had the time to rebuild it. So what do we do - with the
> exception of Stan so far the majority agrees that the profession has a
> sickness that needs to be cured, but we don't have a cure or the
> political pull to make the change.
>
>
>
> Give us some ideas and help - anyone!!!!!
>
>
>
> Dennis S. Wish, PE
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerard Madden, SE [mailto:gmadden(--nospam--at)maddengine.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 6:57 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: H1-B -Abusers
>
>
>
> I went to the website Dennis posted for H1-B hires. One of the biggest
> engineering firms for Tract Homes in Northern CA has had 6 to 7 H1-b
> employee hires with all making 35,000 or less per year. Some are listed
> as "Structural Engineer". CLA (Chien Lee Associates ) should be ashamed
> of themselves ! This is in San Jose, CA-Silicon Valley, where the cost
> of living is right there with San Francisco and New York City. Way to go
> you cheapskates !!!
>
>
>
> I found my friend's hire data, 46 grand for him, better than I was
> getting before I got my PE license (pretty sad for 4 years of college
> and a MS degree though) . but now things are much better.. Gotta have
> ownership to live semi-comfortably in this line of work.
>
>
>
> I'll never forget the day I got my first engineering job. my dad almost
> killed me when I told him what I was going to make. All of his
> employees, with no education, would be making nearly double what I
> would. He thought I was a terrible negotiator, but I told him it was the
> going rate (about what Stan was hiring for his recent grad) of course,
> mine was in 1995 four years earlier.
>
>
>
> Maybe collusion isn't such a bad thing.. seems to have worked well for
> power, oil, medical insurance, and cable companies. I even think oil
> companies have these little "accidents" or supply shortages purposely to
> jack up the price of gas. It's all just a big conspiracy by The Man.
>
>
>
> Our profession is in trouble. Fees are too low making compensation too
> low to attract new generations from this country. When I graduated from
> college, there were 42 civil engineers in my graduating class (went to a
> school with 5,000 undergrads). last year, 7 grads in civil engineering..
>
>
>
> How much would you charge for a new 1 story warehouse building (say
> 30,000 square feet) in a seismic zone 4, on conventional spread/strip
> footings, with a design-build panelized roof?  Inquiring minds wanna
> know?
>
>
>
> -gm
>
>
>
> Gerard "Jared" Madden, SE, PE
>
> California Licensed Structural and Civil Engineer
>
>
>
> Madden Engineering
>
> 2183 Eaton Drive
>
> Lodi, CA 95242
>
> T: 209.368.9955
>
> F: 209.368.9966
>
> E:  <mailto:gmadden(--nospam--at)maddengine.com> gmadden(--nospam--at)maddengine.com
>
> W:  <http://www.maddengine.com> www.maddengine.com
>
>
>
>


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