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RE: Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court Clarifies the Title "Engineer"

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The answer is a definite not in California. However, the Board of
Professional Engineers and land Surveyors in California (BORPELS) does
not go after those who advertise in the wrong section the phone book as
they have in the past. The reason that I received from Sally Strubinger
- a code enforcement officer with BORPELS is that the would rather deal
with the firms who are actually practicing engineering without a
licensed. This is not to say that they approve of engineers who do
structural engineering and advertise in the structural engineers section
of the phone book. Sally explained that they were frustrated when
attempting to get GTE and Verizon Yellow Pages to change the category.
Both refused because they did not understand that there is a difference
in structural engineer"ing" and a structural engineer.
I know because I was incorrectly listed in the Verizon Yellow pages
after I tried to explain the scope of my work to the Yellow Pages
employee. I think I confused them with the discussion of the title act
in California. However, in the same section of the phone book
(Structural Engineer) is an ad from a local firm who is not licensed to
practice engineering, but uses an engineer in another area of Southern
California to wet seal his work. Since the ad is in the unlicensed
engineer's name, BORPELS will probably go after him for disciplinary
actions.
Dennis S. Wish, PE 

-----Original Message-----
From: Schwan, Martin K. [mailto:SchwanMK(--nospam--at)ci.anchorage.ak.us] 
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 6:22 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court Clarifies the Title
"Engineer"

Can a non-engineer advertise in the phone book under engineer? I looked
in the yellow pages for engineers: design, consulting, civil (and under
architects) and noticed several local companies listed who have no such
professional on their staff.  Is that not misrepresentation?  Who
governs how you can advertise services? They may have "consulting
engineer" in their ad but does the public know they may not be an
engineer?  If I hired you because of your ad under "engineer" in the
phone book, it is doubtful I'll ask you to prove you are an engineer.
All jobs up here do not necessarily require a seal of an engineer so
some people could certainly be fooled by advertising...



-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu] 
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 2:54 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court Clarifies the Title
"Engineer"

As Jim point out, in many states that PE act only restricts the use of
the
title "Professional Engineer".  All other uses of the term "engineer" is
FULLY permitted by law in such states.

The NCEES website has a PDF file that lists responses to a survey that
included a question as to what terms are restricted.  The link to the
survey response to this question is:

http://www.ncees.org/licensure/licensing_requirements/2003_survey_result
s/e_01.pdf

(note: the link ends in "...esults/e_01.pdf" and may require pasting
into
your browser)

According to that survey response, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is
one
of those states (i.e. "Professional Engineer" is the only restricted
term/title).  What is suprising is that the responses were supposedly
supplied by the board, so in theory the Pennsylvania board should not
have
ruled as they did in the first place and should not have needed
"clarification" from the court.

FWIW, the NCEES site also has survey responses for a bunch of other
interesting issues.

HTH,

Scott
Ypsilanti, MI


On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Jim Persing wrote:

> I believe that in most of the western states the line is drawn at
being a "professional" engineer and also not holding oneself out to
perform work that is regulated by the professional engineers acts.
Otherwise, anything goes.  I'm actually surprised that the original
finding was to find against the project engineer and fine him.
>
> Jim Persing, PE, SE
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: M. David Finley, P.E. [mailto:pec(--nospam--at)isgroup.net]
> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 1:42 PM
> > To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> > Subject: Re: Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court Clarifies the Title
> > "Engineer"
> >
> >
> > Many doctor's offices have Physician Assistants (PA's) who can
provide
> > medical services, including writing prescriptions, without
> > having the doctor
> > there.
> >
> > M. David Finley, P.E.
> > 2086 SW Main Boulevard - Suite 111
> > Lake City, FL  32025
> > 386-752-6400
> > 386-752-8617 (fax)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ken Peoples" <kspeoples(--nospam--at)lvta.net>
> > To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 4:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court Clarifies the
> > Title "Engineer"
> >
> >
> > > I saw this in our newsletter from the state.  In my
> > opinion, this is a
> > > tragedy.  If you can have a Project Engineer" who is not an
> > Engineer, I
> > > wonder whether we will someday have "Case Doctors" who are
> > not doctors and
> > > "Case Attorneys" who are not attorneys.
> > >
> > > Kenneth S. Peoples, P. E.
> > > Lehigh Valley Technical Associates, Inc.
> > > 1584 Weaversville Road
> > > Northampton, PA 18067-9039
> > > Phone: (610) 262-6345
> > > Fax: (610) 262-8188
> > > e-mail: kpeoples(--nospam--at)lvta.net
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jim Getaz" <jgetaz(--nospam--at)shockeyprecast.com>
> > > To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 2:15 PM
> > > Subject: Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court Clarifies the
> > Title "Engineer"
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.redvector.com/dg.lts/id.354/news_articles.view_content.htm
> > > James L. Getaz, III, P.E. (Pa. # PE034459E)
> > > V: 540-665-3204
> > > F: 540-665-3250
> > >
> > >
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