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RE: Connections

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Dave,
You're a member of a endangered species, the old school detailer who 
knew more abt connections than three engineers. When the government 
abandoned that program, the steel industry took a fatal blow even 
though a lot of people didn't realize it.
Gary

On 1 Dec 2003 at 14:39, Lowen, Dave wrote:

> I have recently rejoined this list and missed most of the connection
> thread so I will add my $0.02.
> 
> I have been a structural detailer for the past 42 years. I served a
> government sponsored 5 year apprenticeship, did the school, shop and
> field learning and was granted certification from the Department of
> Labor.
> 
>             During my apprenticeship and for some years following, I
>             was taught connection design and all the required formulae
>             needed to produce economical connections. I doubt there is
>             anything in the Steel    Construction Manual that I was
>             not taught.
> 
>             In those days, it was a requirement that the detailers do
>             all of the connections on a project, regardless of
>             complexity. The connections would of course be checked,
>             usually by the checkers (former detailers). If a
>             connection was in doubt, it would be reviewed by a
>             designer and if there were still an issue, it would be
>             sent to an Engineer for resolution.
> 
>             With the end of the apprenticeship program and the advent
>             of the computer guru with his 3D software, the quality of
>             detailing has taken a nosedive and detailers can no longer
>             be trusted to design connections. With my passing and the
>             passing of those who were trained in the same manner, it
>             will be mandatory for Engineers to show all connections on
>             their drawings.
> 
>               Regards, Dave                           
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: THunt(--nospam--at)absconsulting.com [mailto:THunt(--nospam--at)absconsulting.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 11:46 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Re: Connections
> 
> 
> One thing I would caution is the statement that the fabricator will
> provide the most economical connection.  This is only moderately true
> when the structural fabricator is also the erector.  Where the
> fabricator is only suppling the steel (erection by others) they will
> design the connections so they are economical to fabricate in the shop
> but not necessarily to erect in the field.  I remember a Texas
> fabricator who came up with a set of standard connections which were
> basically weldless.  Every connection was a nightmare of bolted angles
> and plates.  One connection had 26 pieces!!  This was great for the
> fabricator since he only had to cut and punch. 
> 
> Thomas Hunt, S.E. 
> ABS Consulting 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Gary Hodgson & Associates" <ghodgson(--nospam--at)vaxxine.com> 
> 11/27/2003 05:43 AM 
> 
> Please respond to
> <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> 
> To
> <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org> 
> 
> cc
> 
> 
> Subject
> Re: Connections
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John,
> 
> Having the fabricator's engineer design and stamp shop drawings is a
> plague up here.  Many consultants specify this under the mistaken
> impression that this relieves them of responsibility for the design of
> connections.  There is something to be said for having the fabricator
> choose his own connections because he will choose the most economical,
> easy to install connections suitable for his schedule.  However, it is
> important, crucial even, that the designer review these connections. 
> I do so but there are others that do not.  To those people, I usually
> say one thing: "Kansas City Hyatt Hotel".  They need to read their
> building code and their performance guidelines.
> 
> Gary Hodgson, P.Eng.
> Niagara Falls, ON
> 
> 
> 
> On 26 Nov 2003 at 13:03, John P. Riley wrote:
> 
> > What are the thoughts about the EOR leaving all structural steel
> > connections, including moment connections, up to the fabricator,
> > requiring design by a registered structural engineer, of course?  I
> > used to think this was shirking one's duty, but I'm in the process
> > of rethinking it.
> > 
> > For me, moment connections can be time-consuming.  And since the
> > fabricator may desire a different scheme than I present, due to his
> > in-house capabilities, I might have to revisit the connections
> > during the shop drawing phase, effectively designing them twice.
> > 
> > My personal feeling is that structural engineers expend greater
> > technical effort per dollar fee than some design professionals; it
> > almost seems justified to split the connections off.  It's certainly
> > not significantly different than letting someone else design our
> > trusses for us, joists and joist girders.  You have to draw the line
> > somewhere.
> > 
> > And I need to make up my mind about this quickly; I'm about ready to
> > do this dirty deed on a current fastrack project.
> > 
> > JPRiley
> > 
> > PS:  I've been away from the list for quite some time.  Sorry if
> > this has been adequately covered in the past.
> 
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