Need a book? Engineering books recommendations...

Return to index: [Subject] [Thread] [Date] [Author]

RE: Spec'ing PEMBs [was Lateral Deflection of Masonry Wall Building]

[Subject Prev][Subject Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
My reference to crying is bid jobs.  You have it spec'd a certain way and then half of them call to try and change the criteria verbally.  They're just trying to undercut the next bidder.  That's competition, but don't let your basis be because you're "wasting the owners money".

The design build job I mention had me coming in after the job was quoted and the building was about to be ordered.  It's common in this area to do foundations only after the building is already ordered.  It's not fun, but that's the way it goes sometimes.  The GC actually did eat some of the money because when the concept was explained to him he understood and believed it would give a better job, he just couldn't eat the money for the whole job.

The little sympathy aspect is in reference to bid jobs.  If you're doing a job that will cost $20/sf total and the cost extra is a quarter to get a stiff frame, then that's pretty small.

John C. Jones, PE
Barnett Associates
Pell City, AL
205-884-5334
205-884-0099 (fax)


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Ransom [mailto:ad026(--nospam--at)hwcn.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:21 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Spec'ing PEMBs [was Lateral Deflection of Masonry Wall
Building]


> From: "John C. Jones" <john(--nospam--at)struct-engr.com>

> I had a design build job where I spec'd that criteria.  The GC had =
> already priced it for about h/240.  The extra stiffness caught him by =
> surprise.  When I explained why I did it that way he totally understood. =
>  He was able to bump it to h/360 but that was it.  The price difference =
> between h/100 and h/500 was $0.25/sf.  It surprised me that the number =
> was that low.  I have little sympathy for the PEMB guys now that I have =
> seen that low of a number.

Low is relative. As I recall, the manufacturer's average margins on a
PEMB are in the range of $0.50/sf. 

The GC jumped the gun. Let him swallow $0.25/sf. I wonder if he would
complain.

If I asked you to swallow $0.25/sf (or even just 50% of your margin)
because it suited my scope, would you complain? You bet they're going to
cry.

This is not an Us versus Them arrangement. Give the manufacturer the
REAL spec at quote time or everybody prepare to take a piece of pain. If
the manufacturer can't meet the spec, drop them.

PEMBs, as a general class, are not a difficult product. The problems
arise in the way that they are applied. Sometimes the engineer must step
outside the box to design the surrounding issues to work with the PEMB
to provide the most economical project. Sometimes the PEMB is just the
wrong choice.

-- 
Paul Ransom, P. Eng.
Civil/Structural/Project/International
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
<mailto:ad026(--nospam--at)hwcn.org> <http://www.hwcn.org/~ad026/civil.html>

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
* 
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers 
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To 
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you 
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted 
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web 
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org 
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ******** 

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
*
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********