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RE: Connections

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Roger,
I didn't explain myself well enough.  You can't
possibly show every possible connection or permutation
of it on your drawings.  It gets to the fabricator and
he has to move something, make it fit, allow access,
or cope something and then still make it work.  That's
where they have to engineer.
As I said in a previous post, you guys do a better job
on your details.  Unfortunately, most Canadian engineers 
are still hoping the fabricator will sort things out.
   Btw, this thread has been great-lots of good discussion.
Gary

On 2 Dec 2003 at 9:11, Roger Turk wrote:

Gary,

The engineering drawings, as you and I would produce or which the
fabricator would produce, and engineering calculations should contain
the weld and bolt engineering information.  The detailer would pick
this information off the engineering drawings/calculations and place
the information on the shop drawing.  No engineering is required on
the part of the detailer.  However, if there are no engineering
drawings or calculations, and the detailer selects what he/she
believes is the correct connection/weld/bolt detail from "standards,"
then, yes, engineering is included on the shop drawing and it must be
sealed.  Actually, any selection based on strength/capacity of a 
part,
i.e., engineering, needs to be sealed, however, shop drawings are not
really the place to do the engineering.

I agree that very few shop drawings or fabricator produced 
engineering
drawings/calculations leave the office without having some "blood" on
them.

A. Roger Turk, P.E.(Structural)
Tucson, Arizona

Gary Hodgson wrote:

. > Roger

. > I disagree.  Most shop drawings have engineering in them--size 
and
. > length of welds, no of bolts, edge distance for tear-out, etc. . 
>
Fotunately most of this is pre-engineered in the AISC or CISC . >
handbook.  However, most shops i.e detailers, these days don't know .
> these books inside out and often err- they don't know minimum weld .
> sizes, for example, a lot of engineers also don't know these.  That
. > is why we have to check shop drawings.

. > Seldom do I check drawings without having to red-line something.

. > Gary

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