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Re: Schooling (was Connections)

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Many US schools either offer a non-thesis (usually a few more credits
required) as an alternative fore MSE.  And some schools only have the
non-thesis option (I did not have to do a thesis at Michigan for my MSE).

Regards,

Scott
Ypsilanti, MI


On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Daryl Richardson wrote:

> Ed,
>
>         Such an educational program exists (or at least did exist in the
> recent past) at University of Calgary, in Alberta, Canada.  U. of C. has two
> programs in engineering known as Master of Engineering (as opposed to Master
> of science in Engineering), one by thesis option, the other by course
> option.
>
>         This M.Eng. program by course option is, in my own opinion, the best
> possible education option for a practising engineer; it's even better
> (although less recognized) than a Ph.D. (again in my own opinion).
>
> Regards,
>
> H. Daryl Richardson
>
> Ed Tornberg wrote:
>
> > Cliff,
> >
> > I think you're all over it.
> > Many schools do an excellent job in preparing their undergraduate
> > students to pass the EIT.  But when it comes time to "specialize in
> > structural engineering", that MS degree can be like funneling from a
> > bathtub into a capillary tube.
> > The system holds us hostage via the thesis - a huge investment in time
> > with often little transferrence to our future abilities in the field.
> > Oh, not that we should completely abandon it! - but any good school
> > willing to properly service its customer (the student), should offer a
> > non-thesis path that focuses on outstanding practical preparation rooted
> > in sound theory.  In that optional path there should be room for
> > introduction on how to draft (CAD or not), read drawings, and detail.
> >
> > Let's look at another highly focused profession, the medical profession.
> > Roughly 4 years undergrad, plus roughly 4 years transitioning to the
> > specialty, plus whatever it takes for residency (sort of like intern).
> > A continual process zeroing in on what you're really going to do in
> > professional practice.  The residency pays low dollars, but from there
> > on the compensation is excellent.  Oh, where's the thesis on an obscure
> > subject?  Somehow they manage to get their professional research and
> > journal articles without requiring the thesis of EVERYBODY.
> >
> > Now don't pick apart the parallels - I'm just trying to make a general
> > comparison.
> >
> > I see no problem in questioning our entire system of engineering
> > education - let's drop the sense of tradition for a moment and think
> > freshly about what works and what doesn't.  Any examples?
> >
> > Ed Tornberg
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Clifford Schwinger [mailto:clifford234(--nospam--at)yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 7:42 PM
> > To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> > Subject: RE: Connections
> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > I heard this excuse before (about universities not
> > being able to squeeze coursework in stuctural drafting
> > into the undergraduate curriculum).
> >
> > I should have made it clear in my original post - I
> > think structural drafting should be a mandatory course
> > for engineering students seeking their Master's
> > degree.  This makes perfect sense to me. Students
> > seeking their Master's degree in structural
> > engineering are obviously specializing in structural
> > engineering. There would be no civil engineering
> > students "wasting" their time having to take this
> > "specialized" course that they might never need to use
> > in other fields of Civil Engineering.
> >
> > Actually, I'm confused by the arguement that
> > structural drafting courses can't be "fit" into the
> > undergraduate curiculum. When I was a student I had
> > plenty of leeway to choose lots of electives both in
> > and out of engineering. Perhaps such a course could be
> > offered as an elective to undergraduates who know that
> > they are on a structural engineering track.
> >
> > I suspect that academia does not look too highly upon
> > such low-brow stuff as "structural drafting" - that's
> > a shame.
> >
> > Topics that are held in much higher esteem by academia
> > are articles such as those published in the December
> > 2003 issue of the ASCE Journal of Structural
> > Engineering, pages 1707-1716 titled "Form Finding of
> > Sparse Structures with Continuum Topology
> > Optimization".
> >
> > I challenge anyone to read the first page of that
> > article and translate for me in English ANY ONE
> > SENTENCE! I'm certain that I just set myself up for
> > this one, but who cares. When you (try to) read the
> > article you will get my drift about the point I'm
> > trying to make.
> >
> > I'm not saying that seemingly obscure cutting edge
> > research is not important - it is very important. I'm
> > just saying that universities that can belt out
> > engineers who are "plug-and-play" in their first jobs
> > will rapidly gain the admiration and respect of
> > engineering community. As dinosaur who is responsible
> > for working with young engineers, I have a good handle
> > on which universities are doing a good job at
> > preparing engineers for the "real world" and which are
> > not. When I hear that new hire got his/her B.S. or
> > M.S. as "so and so" University I have a fairly good
> > sense about whether we're getting a Yugo or a Lexus.
> >
> > (Boy did I wander off the original topic of this
> > thread or what?!)
> >
> > OK, I guess I asked for it. Flame me.
> >
> > Cliff Schwinger
> >
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