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RE: Schooling (was Connections)

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Jim,

I know how to sketch a car but I have no idea how it goes together.  My
point was that "teaching" how to sketch should not be necessary at all.
Teaching what GOES ON the sketch...yes, schools should be teaching that
(within limits).  Should a newbie graduate engineer be able to sktech a
full steel special moment connection with all the necessary information on
it (just not to scale or pretty) per the new FEMA 350
requirements/improvements (or even pre-FEMA 350)?  I don't think so since
I _KNOW_ that there many engineers older than I am that can't (I would
have to pick up a referce).  Should a graduate engineer be able to sketch
a basic double angle steel connection or a shear tab connection?  You bet.

As to constructability, that can only be taught to a limited degree in
school.  Constructability is a life learning process.  I _STILL_ run
across things that may or may not be constructable and don't really know
until it is tried.

And note I did day that a recent grad should KNOW what a framing plan
LOOKS like.  Which means that he/she should also be able to sketch it, but
I don't expect them to be able to draft it (either by CAD or by
hand)...but it would be nice.

Regards,

Scott
Yspilanti, MI

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Jim Persing wrote:

> Sorry, Scott but I have to disagree with you on this one.  I think about 80% of engineering is in the details and knowing what needs to go on the plans.  If an engineer can't even sketch a detail for the drafter how is the drafter going to know what to draw?
>
> If the graduate engineer doesn't even know what a framing plan looks like how will he know when the plans are correct or not?  Your method relies too much on the drafter knowing how to teach the engineer and the drafter probably doesn't even know the constructability of what they are putting on the plans.
>
> I'm not saying that you have to pay the engineers to draft but they need to know what the end results should look like and they have to be knowledgeable enough to convey that information to the drafters.  And that generally comes from doing.  And I think a significant amount of that should be part of the undergrad curriculum.
>
> Jim Persing
>
>
> Scott Maxwell wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Sizing a beam
> >
> > If can't do that, then the school failed.
> >
> > > Drafting a framing plan
> >
> > Ah, personally I did not go to college to learn to be a drafter/CAD
> > operator, so I don't necessarily see this as a universities
> > responsibility.  At best, I should know what a framing plan LOOKS like
> > after graduating.
> >
> > > Drafting a structural detail
> >
> > See previous comment.
> >
> > > Hand drawing a sketch
> >
> > Again, not the point of going to a university.  I can teach any high
> > school student to draw a hand sketch.  What I want is the structural
> > engineering grad to KNOW what needs to go on the drawing
> > (within limits).
> > While it is nice for engineers to know how to do such stuff,
> > frankly you
> > are wasting your clients money (and your potential profits) if you are
> > paying engineers to draft.  But that is your choice.  I would
> > rather be
> > paying them to ENGINEER/DESIGN.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Scott
> > Ypsilanti, MI
>
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