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Paper Space - was: Engineering Education Reply to Bill P. from Gerard

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See my comment below!

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerard Madden, SE [mailto:gmadden(--nospam--at)] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 11:01 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject: RE: Engineering Education Reply to Bill P.


P.S. - If you use paperspace for anything other than a plan with a
matchline or 3d drawing, please see the light and learn to XREF. Don't
draw text and leaders in paperspace !!! Also, don't use digitizers, pull
down menus, or icons - use the keyboard young skywalker.

I also started with mainframe Cadam at Hughes in Culver City. I started
Autocad with version 2.5 and it wasn't until Autocad 2000 that I learned
how to be productive.  With this said, let me respond to your comments:

1. I agree with you on digitizers, but I don't like using keyboard
macros - I prefer icons.
2. I use to think that XREF was the greatest thing in the world until I
learned how to use Model and Paper Space. Now, I agree that there are
downsides to using Model to create details and embellishing them with
text and arrows (or dimensions) in Paper Space - it doesn't transfer
well to new drawings. But there are some main advantages to use Paper
a) Draw your entire structure (sans details) in model space and create a
separate sheet border in layout views. Create views and place them on
each paperspace sheet;
b) Using properties turn off all layers not needed in that view (or
layout) so that each paperspace layout becomes a separate drawing. This
is where text, dimensions, arrows and all other embellishments drawing
comes in handy
c) Don't forget to set up a custom plot file that varies line width,
screening by color number. All items that are to be the same from
drawing to drawing can be modified once in model view and then
(depending if the layer is allowed to show in the view you placed) it
acts similar to an XREF but stays attached to the drawing. 

The main problem with XREF is that you need to keep up with the changes.
If you need to make a change to a number of drawings created in model
space, double click on the area in paper space or click on the
model/paper icon at the bottom of the screen and make your changes in
the layout drawing. Just remember to lock the view so that it doesn't

I do like to create details in model space and then place them on a
detail grid and adjust the scale to fit the detail area. It means that I
can either add the embellishment to the model space, but most of the
time, I just set my dimension and line scale to fit the view and add it
in paper space. If I need to transfer it or use it on another job, I end
up having to spend more time copying it over in both paper and model

In short, I disagree. I won't go back to XREF because I have had too
many architects and designers send me updates without telling me what
had changed and I missed some of the things. I am also tired of changing
color and linetypes standards created by others to match my eyesight. 

One final bitch - AutoDesk will no longer support Autocad 2000 AEC after
mid-December or January. I have been getting ads from my Autocad dealer
that if I upgrade to AEC 2004 it will cost me $1,800.00 +/- but if I
wait until after January (or whatever the date it) I will have to buy a
new station for $5,200.00 (+/-). This is a rip off and a royal insult.
However, the question is how long Windows platform upgrades will support
the older version of AutoCad. I don't want to upgrade. I tried 2002 and
hated it. I would move to another program, but I like the 2000 AEC
package - I'm comfortable with it and can produce drawings the way I
like them. I don't want to be forced into spending money on the threat
that the operating system in the future may not support the older
version. Most of you who have installed 2000 AEC on an XP machine
understand. You can do it, but you need to identify the installation
program in XP's Compatibility Mode. If this will work for the next ten
years, then I will refuse to change. If not then I'll start looking at a
less expensive CAD system to move to. There should be no time limit on
upgrades - this is extortion in my book.

Sorry, but every time a company refuses to support their product after a
number of years, we are forced to buy something more than we need.
Fortunately, I have the disks and don't need to register online to keep
using the product. Watch out for those products that take this choice
away from you.


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