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RE: RE: Fillet Weld Reinforcement of Flare Bevel Groove Welds (Specifically HSS Connections)

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Bob,

Thank you for your response.

For reference, my specific welding process is SMAW and the Joint Designation is BTC-P10.

I have been directed in another forum to Note 7, pg. 72 of the AWS D1.1.:2002:

"7. If fillet welds are used...to reinforce...groove welds in corner and T-joints, these shall be equal to T1/4, but need not exceed 3/8 in."

I wonder if this is where the passage in the aforementioned HSS Ex. 5.4 is referencing. As far as the HSS Example, If the above note is accurate ( I assume it is), I can see a possible misinterpretation in that the author of the example is using a direct .25 wall thickness addition to the effective thickness of the flare bevel as opposed to a calculated measure of the SRSS of the original flare bevel width and the .25T "leg" of the fillet reinforcing. The actual increase in weld strength is then closer to 8% , not 40%.

Beyond the example problem, I still have an unresolved issue with this note, in that it specifically states a size of fillet reinforcement of T1/4. I know what T1 is, and I understand as T1/4 exceeds 3/8", the fillet reinforcement need not.

However, I need more build out than T1/4 to reach my effective width size for my desired weld strength. Am I restricted to T1/4? This note does not state T1/4 as a max or min., rather as 'shall be equal to'.

So, if I were to build up a flare bevel weld on a 1/4"(.233") wall rectangular tube with a 1/4" fillet and use the shortest distance from the face of build up back to the start of the flare bevel to measure my effective width, and then use this width to calculate my weld strength-it sounds like I would be at variance with the code. (Obviously a 1/4" build out is greater than T1/4=.233/4.=.05825)

If I were to need more weld strength for this joint and one that is still pre-qualified, is my only solution thickening the tube wall? Thus flare bevel weld size and fillet reinforcement size is larger. Or can I build out the fillet reinforcement greater than T1/4 and calculate the effective width?...........Which personally is what I would, of course, prefer.

Thanks again for any assistance on this topic.



At 06:27 PM 12/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
Bill,

Welcome.

My best guess is that someone misunderstood section 2.14.3 of AWS D1.1-1996,
upon which the HSS Manual is based. I sit on D1 SC1 on Design, and that
interpretation does not ring a bell with me, either under previous or
current code language.

There has been some effort in this regard. The Canadians have a different
approach, and AISC has new research, that we are studying for possible
inclusion in a future D1.1.

Bob Shaw

Robert E. Shaw, Jr., PE
President
Steel Structures Technology Center, Inc.
24110 Meadowbrook Rd., Suite 104
Novi, MI 48375-3406
(248) 893-0132
fax (248) 893-0134
www.steelstructures.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Swanson [mailto:bswanson(--nospam--at)clarkpac.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 3:47 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Fillet Weld Reinforcement of Flare Bevel Groove Welds
(Specifically HSS Connections)


Hello, New to Forum.

In following a design example in AISC's Hollow Structural Sections
Connection Manual, I have come across a passage that refers to criteria for
reinforcing a flare bevel groove weld with a fillet weld. The example
problem (Ex. 5.4, page 5-22) addresses the weld of a WT section to an HSS
Column. The passage,..."Note that if the weld [flare bevel] is reinforced
with a fillet weld, the effective throat could be increased by 0.25 times
the wall thickness per AWSD1.1 which would increase the weld strength by 40
percent"....seems to imply a limit to the reinforcement of a flare bevel
for the HSS Section more restrictive than simply building up the effective
throat thickness to the HSS shear and/or tension rupture strength.

I have combed through the AWS D1.1:2002 to the best of my ability over the
last couple of days and have found nothing specifically regarding this
issue with flare bevel groove welds. With deadlines approaching,
well,...you've all been there.

Can anyone cite the AWS code section that addresses this topic? Or, would
anyone be willing to share knowledge of effective strength limits of fillet
reinforced flare bevel welds?

Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
William P. Swanson, P.E.


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