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RE: Outsourcing - light commercial and high end residential

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As you point out what counts is meeting the monthly budget, but the budget goes to pot when there is no income coming in. Considering that we are a country based on going into debt, there are a few things that can happen:


  1. Wages are forced down and those in our industry who are affected by outsourcing, need to find second jobs or get out of the industry.
  2. Have the wife and husband working multiple jobs to make up the loss for the minimum payments against what we owe that would still allow us to reduce our debt over a longer period of time.
  3. File bankruptcy; although this will not release us of obligation based on new federal and state laws pertaining to the filing of bankruptcy.
  4. Have multiple families move into one home or apartment who can share the cost. Multiple family homes may be the design of the future where one common room allows for parents to share a home with their working children and everyone is responsible for the family debt.
  5. Leave any profession affected by outsourcing and retrain for jobs that require local hands on – plumbers, electricians, roofers – any type of job that is require regardless of the swings in the economy. For example, those who live in the desert need air conditioning in the summer. If it breaks down, the choice is to spend the money to have it fixed or die. Swamp coolers are a short term fix, but this only depends on the humidity and temperature in a town. In the mid-west furnace repair and plumbers seem to be most needed. Nursing, doctors (although at HMO rates) are needed, but are currently under the H-1B programs and possibly NAFTA.
  6. Walk away from it and if we have saved well, leave the US and move somewhere where the labor rate is low and our dollars can be converted into paying for services from those willing to work for us on a personal level of $0.03 an hour.


What happens to our communities?


  1. California is seeing what’s happening now. We are going further into debt to pay back debt without a solid plan for how the bonds the Governor plans to sell will profit. The same problem we had with stock we will have with bonds – if there is not a reasonable way to build income to the state without taxation, then the bonds will maintain the status that they currently have based on Moody’s appraisal of California bonds at barely above junk bond status.
  2. Programs for your schools will be lost, class sizes increased and the bar on performance by students lowered.
  3. Healthcare within each state will suffer – lower income means lower taxes paid and the state priorities begin to waver from what was necessary to leaving it in the private sector. What this means is that those in the private sector who can’t afford care will resort to welfare by the more expensive use of emergency room and urgent care services. Either way, the public pays for it at state or by federal allocations.
  4. Communities deteriorate because of the lack of money to fix streets, sewers etc. Property values reduce as the lack of income means that it becomes a buyers market rather than a seller. And the one investment that has risen consistently over time – ownership of property – drops like a lead balloon.

In short – the value of assets in the United States reduces except the debt that each person owes. With this will come either higher interest rates based on reports by banks that your credit is questionable and your become a risk, thus demanding payment in full for whatever debt is outstanding.


I’m not trying to be pessimistic here, but I see a wave of problems on the horizon and I don’t see the professional community doing a thing to work out some means to help each other rather than see the work we have go outside this country. So as David proposes, the cost of purchases may reduce, but our budget has to be maintained in order to pay back the debt we owe. Credit card debt is a problem with many – low on my side – but many of us have mortgages and car payments and these represent the largest purchases that families make outside of healthcare without insurance – which plagues many.


What good is a $10.00 DVD or CD if you can’t afford it?


Dennis S. Wish, PE


-----Original Message-----
From: David L. Fisher [mailto:dfisher(--nospam--at)]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 9:56 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject: RE: Outsourcing - light commercial and high end residential


Ladies and gentlemen:


I hate to remind everyone this, but we would be fighting ourselves to protect ourselves.


US Companies like Nike, Ford, Dell, etc., have unilaterally moved their operations overseas or

To Mexico….to become Multi-national corporations.



Why pay some American $18-$20/hour (plus benefits) when you can pay some 10 year old Indonesian kid $0.03????


Its all about the bottom line, folks…it has nothing to do with nationalism.



While the members of this list are quite likely smarter than the average bear and so understand the potential

Risks (and benefits) of globalization, I would say most Americans want cheap goods…they could care less about where they are from!!!!



Again, in the typical American household, the monthly budget is what counts…not trade deficits, the evironemnt or overseas working



CD’s for less than $10 at Best Buy…!




David L. Fisher, SE, PE


Head of Design and Construction


Cape Cod Grand Cayman Holdings Ltd.

75 Fort Street

Georgetown, Grand Cayman

British West Indies


-----Original Message-----
From: Pankaj Gupta [mailto:3.sol(--nospam--at)]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:32 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject: Re: Outsourcing - light commercial and high end residential


Dennis Wish wrote

When are we going to wake up and start to fight back to protect our livelihood?  My wife ordered a pair of shoes for me and the label said made in China – I returned the shoes. Then I looked at the shoes we bought at the mall – Hush Puppies. Again, made in China but now its too late for me to take them back (I’ve had them for a month and never checked the label). My wife told me that Dexter makes shoes in the U. S. and I asked her to go with me to find Dexter. If this is what it takes, I am starting to pay more attention – I only hope it’s not too late.

Dennis if your ideology and philosophy is adopted and applied by the US government consistently for 30 years, US will certainly transform from being the wealthiest nation to somewhere sandwiched between Sudan & Myanmar. But thankfully (not for me but for the citizens of US) they won't adopt it.


And also sometimes you should give a thought about how so may jobs and so much of wealth exists in US which you want to retain ......hint...hint...capitalism trade  ......hint...hint...WTO/GATT .... 


It is your wish (no pun intended), you can buy American shoes which might cost 3 times the Chinese ones, and so on with everything you buy, till your budget exceeds your income, so you will have to hike up your fee in order to survive. But how will you be able to manage that with the average fee actually going down due to the market's trend of outsourcing. And it won't help if everybody else in US starts following your idealogy too, because then that would become the reason for US ending up sandwiched between Sudan & Myanmar, because French, British et al would still be buying Chinese shoes.


There are some issues which cannot be wished away, but rather they need a new perspective and a creative approach to tackle them. And I am sorry to say your perspective is as old as Karl Marx and your approach as old as Mahatma Gandhi. While these worked for them since these were new & creative solutions at that time for those particular problems, but they won't work for you, as you have a new problem. So think ... think new ..... do what America is known for ....and not what it has always abhorred (& fought so many wars to remove from the face of this earth).




Pankaj Gupta

Structures Online