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RE: online plan stamper

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David et al,
Our provisions are similar, except you would be expected
to contact the originator of the drawings to ensure you
do have permission to use their drawings.  A while back,
the Can. federal government advised the professional
organizations they could not have any requirements
that lessened competition, such as fixed fee schedules.
I believe that this business of having to prepare the
drawings under your direct supervision is one of those
requirements attempting to keep work in state or province.
Hence, in our area, there are several independent
individuals preparing drawings for engineers & architects.

   We do have to make sure the drawings are adequate and to
code.  Canada being a small country population wise, we
get several outside companies who want previously prepared
drawings approved for use here, and they approach Canadian
consultants to "fix" the drawings to Canadian standards.
Gary


On 8 Apr 2004 at 16:00, David L. Fisher wrote:

> Illinois has a slightly different take:
>
>     (225 ILCS 340/12) (from Ch. 111, par. 6612) [NL]    (Section
>     scheduled
> to be repealed on January 1, 2010) [NL]    Sec. 12. Every holder of a
> license as a structural engineer shall display it in a conspicuous
> place in the holder's principal office, place of business or
> employment. [NL] Every licensed structural engineer shall have a
> reproducible seal or facsimile, the print of which shall contain the
> name and license number of the structural engineer, and the words
> "Licensed Structural Engineer," "State of Illinois." The licensed
> structural engineer shall seal all plans, drawings, and specifications
> prepared by or under the engineer's supervision. [NL]    A licensed
> structural engineer may seal documents not produced by the licensed
> structural engineer when the documents have either been produced by
> others working under the licensed structural engineer's personal
> supervision and control or when the licensed structural engineer has
> sufficiently reviewed the documents to ensure that they have met the
> standards of reasonable professional skill and diligence. In reviewing
> the work of others, the licensed structural engineer shall, where
> necessary, do calculations, redesign, or any other work necessary to
> be done to meet such standards and should retain evidence of having
> done such review. The documents sealed by the licensed structural
> engineer shall be of no lesser quality than if they had been produced
> by the licensed structural engineer. The licensed structural engineer
> who seals the work of others is obligated to provide sufficient
> supervision and review of such work so that the public is protected.
> [NL]    The licensed structural engineer shall affix the signature,
> current date, date of license expiration and seal to the first sheet
> of any bound set or loose sheets prepared by the licensed structural
> engineer or under that licensed structural engineer's immediate
> supervision. [NL](Source: P.A. 91-91, eff. 1-1-00.)
>
>
> I've used this provision to seal drawings produced by engineering
> firms not licensed in Illinois.
>
> However, this happens maybe once a year and I only do it after I do
> all of the necessary checks and calculations necessary to comply with
> the provisions of the Act.
>
>
> I don't seek this work out nor do I charge only $99/sheet.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
>
> David L. Fisher, SE, PE
> Senior Principal
> Fisher+partners
>
> 372 West Ontario
> Chicago, IL 60610
>
> 312.573.1701
> 312.573.1726 fax
> 312.622.0409 mobile
>
> www.fpse.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Caldwell, Stan [mailto:scaldwell(--nospam--at)halff.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 3:32 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: online plan stamper
>
> Craig:
>
> If you study the subject website, you will find that this individual
> offers to review and seal multi-sheet sets of engineering drawings for
> as little as $9/sheet and promises overnight service.  Now consider
> the typical language in most state licensing laws and regulations.
> For example, the Texas PE Boards Rules have the following provisions:
>
> "131.166 Engineers' Seals"
>
> (c) "Engineers shall only seal work done by them or performed under
> their direct supervision, except as provided in subsection (m) of this
> section concerning standards.  Upon sealing, engineers take full
> professional responsibility for that work."
>
> (m) "When an engineer elects to use standards or general guideline
> specifications, those items shall be clearly labeled as such, shall
> bear the identity of the publishing entity, and shall be:
>
> (1) individually sealed by the engineer; or
> (2) specified on an integral design/title/contents sheet that bears
> the engineer's seal, signature, and date with a statement authorizing
> its use."
>
> In practice, the PE Board has consistently interpreted these rules
> very narrowly.  "Direct supervision" means work that you have
> personally supervised, on premises, while the work was in progress.
> An engineer employed full-time by Company A can only seal work done by
> another full-time employee of Company A working under his/her direct
> supervision.  This excludes all scenarios with part-time designers and
> reviewers, subconsultants and subcontractors, as well as individuals
> working for more than one employer.
>
> Any other doubts or questions?
>
> Stan R. Caldwell, P.E.
> Dallas, Texas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig Leech [mailto:cleech(--nospam--at)nyc.rr.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 1:50 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: online plan stamper
>
> §131.166 Engineers' Seals
>
> I do not wish to argue for the person in question, as the practice
> does seem to be open to abuse, but...
>
> What is illegal or wrong with such a proposal?  He asks for a
> description of the drawing, it is sent to his office and it is
> reviewed to ensure that it meets the required state code.  If the
> check is indeed performed, what is wrong?
>
> We appear to be making a lot of assumptions.  He may limit the $99
> charge to simple letter size sketches of subjects he is familiar with.
>  He may charge more for other complexities.  It may just be a case of
> misleading advertising.
>
> Again, not a defense, simply a question about requirements before a PE
> puts his stamp on something.
>
> Craig (the non-PE)
>
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