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Re: Direct Supervision in Texas

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Jim, Charley, & Stan:

Similar thoughts were running thru my head when I read that enforcement
action that Stan posted...but mine went even further...

What does the board define as "personally present"?  Does that mean "in
the same building"?  "In the same suite"?  "In the next office"?  Or does
it mean sitting there next to the person doing the work?  If the last,
then does the supervising PE have to be there the WHOLE time?  To me,
"personally present" implies that the supervising PE is sitting there the
whole time...which then completely defeats any idea of having some
subordinate engineers that do work that you are "personally present" to
supervise.  In such a definition, how does the PE get any of THEIR work
done?

I understand the intent, but the wording of that ruling is "loose" at
best...lawyer fodder at worst.

Interesting none the less...

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI


On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Charley Hamilton wrote:

> Jim -
>
> It seems like "regular personal presence" could reasonably be
> interpreted to mean that the EOR routinely is available to the
> project engineer for questions and consultation during the development
> of the project. When the EOR is away, I would guess that "exerting
> significant control" could take place, by either delegation to a
> trusted subordinate (senior engineer) or restriction of scope of work
> (e.g. "Don't send these layouts and details to drafting before I get
> back and review them.").
>
> I agree, however, that the final sentence seems to contradict the
> prior sentence by stating the supervising engineers must be
> personally present at all times.  Unless that last sentence is
> actually Board Rule 131.18(9) and the prior sentences are the
> clarification.  Stan?
>
> Question for Stan:
>
> Does the enforcement action give any details regarding the cause
> for complaint?  Was Mr. Perge not present *at any time* during
> preparation of the design (i.e on vacation the whole time), or
> was he simply absent periodically during the design?  If the
> latter, I agree with Jim.  If you have to be physically present
> at all times, how does any work get done when the Principals all
> get the flu?
>
> Charley
>
> --
> Charles Hamilton, PhD EIT               Faculty Fellow
> Department of Civil and                 Phone: 949.824.3752
>      Environmental Engineering           FAX:   949.824.2117
> University of California, Irvine        Email: chamilto(--nospam--at)uci.edu
>
>
>
>
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