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Re: Interesting Disclaimer

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This has nothing to do with an SE trying to shirk our fiduciary responsibility.  Maybe you should review the AISC Code of Standard Practice.  As the SE I am under no fiduciary obligation other than to provide complete design drawings and specifications that are released for construction.  AISC COSP 4.3 states, The fabricator shall neither use nor reproduce any part of the Design Drawings as part of the Shop or Erection Drawings without the written permission of the Designer.  There are also a series of conditions on their use, including provisions for a service or licensing fee to be paid to the designer by the fabricator.
I have no problem with a detailer using our CAD file as a starting point to create an erection drawing, and we routinely provide this information without a fee.  But don't just copy my drawing with no detailing review what-so-ever and return it to me as your detail drawings.  Where is the detailers fiduciary responsibility being met in this?  Where is the active review and development of detailed information?  Who is shirking what responsibility? 
The fabricator is not liable for the completeness of the design, but I do not see how you get to this point from the issue under discussion.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: Interesting Disclaimer

From a fabricator's viewpoint, it is just another way for an SE to shirk his fiduciary responsibility. We should not be liable for the completeness of design, nor should they be responsible if we cut a beam too short.
We like using AE/SE dwgs for E dwgs. It saves  time on the entire project , it costs the owner less money in detailing, and it cuts down on the likelihood of mistakes when transferring marks.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:47 PM
Subject: Interesting Disclaimer

I do some construction support engineering for a contractor friend of mine from time to time. He gave me a set of drawings for structural rehabilitation of a parking garage today, and I've been looking over them.
I tend to be a real stickler for precision in my specifications and my drawings notes, and try to keep up with "jargon" to make sure I'm clear about what I'm asking. Not to say that I'm "perfect" in this by any stretch--I'm continually trying to improve my processes--but I pride myself on being clear and succinct.
So it's interesting when I see drawings from another engineer who doesn't seem to share my opinion in this regard. For the most part I think many S.E.s crib together a set of general notes for their drawings, and then leave them alone for ten or twelve years. So you get a lot of anachronisms, citing of "obsolete" codes and standards, etc.
I came upon an interesting disclaimer on the set I have been reviewing; it's the last note on the sheet of general notes.
It reads:
"The use of REPRODUCTIONS of these contract drawings by any contractor, subcontractor, erector, fabricator or material supplier in lieu of preparation of shop drawings signifies his acceptance of all information shown hereon as correct, and obligates himself to any job expense, real or implied, arising due to any errors that may occur hereon."
Okay, so if I'm reading this right, if I'm a contractor, subcontractor, erector, fabricator or material supplier connected with this construction, and use this engineer's drawings, and there is an error therein that causes a loss of time or material, that's just my tough luck because I didn't check his drawings?
Any comments?