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Re: designers

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Stan,
You are correct as Todd Speck pointed out yesterday, but the change still
doesn't allow a steel detailer to call what he is doing Engineering (to the
public) or anyone who is dealing with the public to hold themselves out as
Engineers. So in reference to Paul's list yesterday the term "Engineer" is
protected in Texas but some nonlicensed engineers in Texas can call
themselves Engineer in the private setting. All this being said in reality
the trash man still calls himself a sanitation engineer in Texas and the
worst thing that would happen to him (say if he was offering to redesign Ms
Jones trash can assembly) is he'd receive a cease and desist order since the
board has little authority over him.

I'm interested in the cases you referred to ("TBAE currently has two
enforcement actions pending against engineers for doing "full building
design" of public buildings") As the Texas Arch rules and Egr rules have had
language that does not restrict Engineers from doing work allowed by their
rules and the engineering rules do not restrict architects from doing their
thing. The key is that you better know what you are doing. An architect
doing structural design better know how to design for all the applicable
loads. If he does I don't think he's in violation of the Egr's Practice Act
(see sect 19(7)(e) and visa-versa (similar wording in their law).
Where do I find info on your reference?

Rand

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Caldwell, Stan" <scaldwell(--nospam--at)halff.com>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Cc: <rand(--nospam--at)sigmaengineers.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: designers



Rand Holtham wrote:

"Texas does not allow anyone to use Engineer in their title (except graduate
engineer for an EIT) or offer any kind of engineering explicit or implied
(save some rights by Architects) nor can the word Architect be used by
someone not licensed i.e. an engineer can do what would commonly be referred
to as architecture but he can't call it architecture."

Rand:

I sincerely wish that you are correct, but you are not.  The 78th Texas
Legislature, under pressure from Corporate America, significantly relaxed
the use of the term "Engineer" last year.  What follows is an excerpt from
my legislative summary on the SEAoT website.  To read more on this and other
changes to your professional life, simply go to the website at
www.seaot.org.

With respect to your conclusion that "an engineer can do what would commonly
be referred to as architecture but he can't call it architecture", this has
yet to be resolved between TBPE and TBAE.  The debate has been raging for
nearly 15 years.  TBAE currently has two enforcement actions pending against
engineers for doing "full building design" of public buildings.  I have
recently been appointed to the new TBPE/TBAE Joint Advisory Committee on the
Practice of Engineering and Architecture.  Our first meeting will be in
Austin tomorrow, and we will earnestly try to find some common ground on
this issue.

Regards,

Stan R. Caldwell, P.E.
Dallas, Texas

¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤

SB 277:  Signed into Law 06/20/03, Effective 09/01/03

This is the 800# gorilla that was vigorously opposed by SEAoT, TSPE, ASCE,
and (less vigorously) CEC-T.  The primary purposes of this legislation were
to re-authorize the PE Board for another 12 years, revise a host of PE Board
administrative procedures, and relax the use of the term "Engineer".

With respect to the latter, the legislation extends the previous industrial
exemption to permit activities of private corporation employees under direct
control of the entity to make reasonable modifications of existing buildings
and facilities not accessible to the general public and to design,
fabricate, and produce services or products.  Furthermore, a person working
in an exempt organization may now use the term "Engineer" on business cards
and correspondence.  However, they may not offer services to the public nor
use the term outside the exemption.  A separate provision of the legislation
specifically exempts aerospace companies working for NASA from regulation
and permits the title of "Engineer" in job classifications and on business
cards, as long as the wording does not imply licensing and services are not
offered to the public without being licensed.

Of course, what's good for the goose is also good for the gander!  If new
graduates can now go to work for Corporate America and immediately call
themselves engineers, why not apply the same latitude for new graduates
going to work for engineering consulting firms?  Sure enough, to quote the
PE Board,   "a graduate engineer in a licensed firm working under a PE may
use the term "Engineer" on business cards and stationary."  [This is
wonderful news, the derogatory stigma associated with the
Engineer-In-Training title will now become a thing of the past!]

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