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RE: Allocation of Responsibilities (part 1)

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[Sorry folks, this got long, so I broke it into two messages.  Read or
ignore at your convenience]

> First of all, on the issue of a fabricator using pieces of an engineer's
> drawings for his shop drawings:  the fabricator is taking the
> responsibility to make things fit; if using pieces of the engineer's
> (implicitly incorrect) drawings causes him to make a mistake, it's still
> his problem.  Backed into a corner, I know a few of them who may try to
> make a case out of mistakes in your drawings, but if your drawings are
> that bad, the case could probably be made whether or not they copied the

This is stated explicitly in AISC's "Code of Standard Practice for Steel
Buildings and Bridges", 2000 edition, section 4.3(a)-(d).  The fabricator
still responsible for fit-up and for generating fabrication drawings.

> As an aside, the use of engineer's drawings (and by extension, computer
> models and other information), while frowned upon by most independent
> engineers, is probably one of the most significant advantages available
> in true design-build.  By true design-build, I mean a situation where

I agree completely, my employer disagrees completely.  My argument is, why
should the owner pay two people to generate the same erection drawings?  Or
as a minimum, why can't the fabricator use the SE's electronic plans and
elevations as starting points?

Here's another perspective:  How many of you (or your drafters) generate all
of your plans from a blank sheet, and how many use the architectural
electronic base plans as a starting point?  I've had jobs where our plans
consisted of the architectural base plans x-ref'ed into a sheet with layers
turned off, then the structure drawn over the top.  We still had to draw the
structural system, and we still had to generate all the details and notes.
How is this different from what the fabricator wants to do?  I've also had
jobs where the arch. plans were such crap that we had to completely draw
ours from scratch.  Unfortunately, the some architects can't tell the
difference between the two.

Jason Kilgore
Leigh & O'Kane, LLC
Kansas City, Missouri

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