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Re: what does a Principle make

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Paul,

I would agree that is the common definition and the one that I think of
when I here someone say "Principle" (not necessarily "Principle
Engineer"...that could be construed as something else).  I believe Rand
may have be asking because of my reference to how it is defined in the
Michigan PE Act.  Here is the definition that Michigan uses in the PE Act
(in case you are interested):

(h) Principal means a sole proprietor, partner, the president,
vice-president, secretary, treasurer, or director of a corporation, or a
member or manager of a limited liability company.

In essence, they also define officers of companies who may or may not be
part owners as principles as well (which is consistant with your second
sentance, but not the first sentance/comment).

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI


On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Paul Feather wrote:

> Ownership.  The ability to make decisions that affect the direction of the
> company, with ultimate responsibility for the success or failure of the
> firm.
>
>
> Paul Feather PE, SE
> pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net
> www.SE-Solutions.net
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rand Holtham, P.E." <rand(--nospam--at)sigmaengineers.com>
> To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:41 AM
> Subject: what does a Principle make
>
>
> > How do others define "Principal Engineer" ?
> >
> > Rand
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Maxwell" <smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu>
> > To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 7:55 PM
> > Subject: Re: Legal and liability - using my stamp
> >
> >
> > > Mark:
> > >
> > > Others have offered good things to think about...both those from smaller
> > > firms (i.e. sole practitioners) and larger firms (see Stan's comments).
> > >
> > > I would say that Stan and Jason offered some good comments from a larger
> > > firm perspective.
> > >
> > > Some other things to keep in mind...
> > >
> > > 1) E&O insurance does absolutely NOTHING for your license.  As some have
> > > hinted at, it will only protect your financial "tushie".  There is
> NOTHING
> > > to protect your license except doing good engineering.  And, if you lose
> > > your license, then you have problems with ALL states, as they are DARN
> > > good about transmitting and "trusting" board enforcement actions, but
> have
> > > trouble transmitting and/or "trusting" reference/job/school verification
> > > for the purposes of getting a license by reciprosity (i.e. you fillout
> the
> > > same forms 50 times if you want to be licensed in every state...unless
> you
> > > do the NCEES records program).
> > >
> > > 2) I think think that Stan overstated the issue of who seals drawings
> > > (i.e. responsible charge) just a hair.  While he is basically on point,
> it
> > > is important to realize that each state can have slightly different
> > > requirement/rules in this area.  I think Bill Sherman is a little closer
> > > on target.  You need to be aware of what each state that you are
> licensed
> > > in requires.  Some are rather lax (or non-specific), while others are
> very
> > > strict and specific.
> > >
> > > 3) If you are officially sealing on behalf of the company (i.e. the
> > > company offers professional services that you are providing as a company
> > > employee), then many states have additional rules about how the company
> > > needs to be setup (i.e. ownership).  I believe a couple people have
> > > mentioned this.  This has two main impacts...first, more fees (for the
> > > company)...but also, many states require a certain number of the
> > > owners/principles be licensed.  To my understanding, New York require
> ALL
> > > owners of the company to be licensed.  Michigan requires 2/3 of the
> > > principles to be licensed (but carefully review how they define
> > > principles...not necessarily owners, but could be non-owning company
> > > officers).  To me, the intent of this provision is that engineering
> > > decisions cannot (should not) be overridden by non-licensed individuals
> > > due to financial reason rather than engineering reasons.
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > >
> > > Scott
> > > Adrian, MI
> > >
> > > On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 Markajohn(--nospam--at)cs.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks to all who responded.  Very educational.
> > > >
> > > > So far, several people have said that insurance is of questionable use
> > and
> > > > may even be a bad idea.  There is also the discussion about who should
> > stamp
> > > > what. Also, there is risk, including lifetime liability and "prior
> acts"
> > > > liability.  If the risk is not dealt with by insurance, or even if it
> > is, it should be
> > > > compensated for with a decent salary, partial ownership, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Now I have some things to talk to my firm about.  What a great list.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks All,
> > > > Mark Johnson
> > > >
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