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Re: what does a Principle make

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Well, I always see Principal listed in the salary surveys and I've worked
with engineers whose title was Principal, and I think it's unlikely that
they are owners or part owners i.e. branch offices of national firms. Are
some Principals what might otherwise be termed lead engineer. I was getting
the thought that maybe larger firms may have lead engineers who are
principally in responsible charge of many jobs delegated to subordinates
working under they're direct supervision. But what both of you are
indicating is that a Principal is a "business man/Engineer".

Rand

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Maxwell" <smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: what does a Principle make


> Paul,
>
> I would agree that is the common definition and the one that I think of
> when I here someone say "Principle" (not necessarily "Principle
> Engineer"...that could be construed as something else).  I believe Rand
> may have be asking because of my reference to how it is defined in the
> Michigan PE Act.  Here is the definition that Michigan uses in the PE Act
> (in case you are interested):
>
> (h) Principal means a sole proprietor, partner, the president,
> vice-president, secretary, treasurer, or director of a corporation, or a
> member or manager of a limited liability company.
>
> In essence, they also define officers of companies who may or may not be
> part owners as principles as well (which is consistant with your second
> sentance, but not the first sentance/comment).
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott
> Adrian, MI
>
>
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Paul Feather wrote:
>
> > Ownership.  The ability to make decisions that affect the direction of
the
> > company, with ultimate responsibility for the success or failure of the
> > firm.
> >
> >
> > Paul Feather PE, SE
> > pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net
> > www.SE-Solutions.net
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rand Holtham, P.E." <rand(--nospam--at)sigmaengineers.com>
> > To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:41 AM
> > Subject: what does a Principle make
> >
> >
> > > How do others define "Principal Engineer" ?
> > >
> > > Rand
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Scott Maxwell" <smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu>
> > > To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 7:55 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Legal and liability - using my stamp
> > >
> > >
> > > > Mark:
> > > >
> > > > Others have offered good things to think about...both those from
smaller
> > > > firms (i.e. sole practitioners) and larger firms (see Stan's
comments).
> > > >
> > > > I would say that Stan and Jason offered some good comments from a
larger
> > > > firm perspective.
> > > >
> > > > Some other things to keep in mind...
> > > >
> > > > 1) E&O insurance does absolutely NOTHING for your license.  As some
have
> > > > hinted at, it will only protect your financial "tushie".  There is
> > NOTHING
> > > > to protect your license except doing good engineering.  And, if you
lose
> > > > your license, then you have problems with ALL states, as they are
DARN
> > > > good about transmitting and "trusting" board enforcement actions,
but
> > have
> > > > trouble transmitting and/or "trusting" reference/job/school
verification
> > > > for the purposes of getting a license by reciprosity (i.e. you
fillout
> > the
> > > > same forms 50 times if you want to be licensed in every
state...unless
> > you
> > > > do the NCEES records program).
> > > >
> > > > 2) I think think that Stan overstated the issue of who seals
drawings
> > > > (i.e. responsible charge) just a hair.  While he is basically on
point,
> > it
> > > > is important to realize that each state can have slightly different
> > > > requirement/rules in this area.  I think Bill Sherman is a little
closer
> > > > on target.  You need to be aware of what each state that you are
> > licensed
> > > > in requires.  Some are rather lax (or non-specific), while others
are
> > very
> > > > strict and specific.
> > > >
> > > > 3) If you are officially sealing on behalf of the company (i.e. the
> > > > company offers professional services that you are providing as a
company
> > > > employee), then many states have additional rules about how the
company
> > > > needs to be setup (i.e. ownership).  I believe a couple people have
> > > > mentioned this.  This has two main impacts...first, more fees (for
the
> > > > company)...but also, many states require a certain number of the
> > > > owners/principles be licensed.  To my understanding, New York
require
> > ALL
> > > > owners of the company to be licensed.  Michigan requires 2/3 of the
> > > > principles to be licensed (but carefully review how they define
> > > > principles...not necessarily owners, but could be non-owning company
> > > > officers).  To me, the intent of this provision is that engineering
> > > > decisions cannot (should not) be overridden by non-licensed
individuals
> > > > due to financial reason rather than engineering reasons.
> > > >
> > > > HTH,
> > > >
> > > > Scott
> > > > Adrian, MI
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 Markajohn(--nospam--at)cs.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks to all who responded.  Very educational.
> > > > >
> > > > > So far, several people have said that insurance is of questionable
use
> > > and
> > > > > may even be a bad idea.  There is also the discussion about who
should
> > > stamp
> > > > > what. Also, there is risk, including lifetime liability and "prior
> > acts"
> > > > > liability.  If the risk is not dealt with by insurance, or even if
it
> > > is, it should be
> > > > > compensated for with a decent salary, partial ownership, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now I have some things to talk to my firm about.  What a great
list.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks All,
> > > > > Mark Johnson
> > > > >
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