Need a book? Engineering books recommendations...

Return to index: [Subject] [Thread] [Date] [Author]

RE: Firewall Connection

[Subject Prev][Subject Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Roger:

The IBC requirement for firewalls is very poorly worded and gives the engineer very little guidance or options. The wording, however, is very effective in transfering the liability for the stability of the wall to the engineer. It must have been written by an attorney!

The NFPA, NBCC and FM give alot more info., options and guidance. The NBCC is very clear. 

Jim K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Davis [mailto:rdavis(--nospam--at)sdsarch.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 6:52 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: Firewall Connection


Method one does not meet the requirement for a firewall since by IBC 2102.1,
a wall is, by definition, a vertical element.  This particular definition is
in the masonry section but a firewall must be a vertical element.
Wisconsin's prior code did allow a wall to include elements that were within
30 degrees of vertical and I did take advantage of that on one occasion.  I
asked about that at a seminar introducing the IBC before it took effect in
Wisconsin and one of the speakers representing ICC said the wall had to be
vertical. 

Roger C. Davis
Architect
SDS Architects, Inc.
205 N. Dewey Street
Eau Claire, WI 54703
(715) 832-1605


-----Original Message-----
From: John C. Jones [mailto:john(--nospam--at)struct-engr.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 7:24 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: Firewall Connection

I have seen this done two ways.  

1.  Provide 2 doors separated by a door swing plus an ADA distance.  This
only works where you have an alcove or a corridor.  What you do is build the
majority of the length of the 2 firewalls as you normally would.  When you
come to the opening the wall steps away by the distance mentioned.  The is
for the below ceiling condition.  Above the ceiling the wall doesn't change.
At the ceiling you build a concrete slab.  We usually call this one the
tunnel method.

2.  Build walls in usual manner.  At the door you provide CIP columns and a
beam/slab at the ceiling.  Inside this you  provide only one door.  The
thinking on this is that the CIP is freestanding.  It's built bombproof.  On
the top level of the CIP beam/slab you provide a sloping surface with felt.
The block firewalls are built on top of the sloping surface.  The sloping
surface looks like the ridge of a roof with the ridge parallel to the wall
and between the block wythes.  The thinking is that if there is a fire and
it pulls the block then you are helping it do so with the slope.  Your
structure below is built where it is "bombproof" and won't move.


Follow-up question:  What do you design the walls for, especially a
cantilever?  I have seen some folks design this for the 5psf interior wall
condition and equake.  We use a full code wind load and check equake.
Reasoning is that IF the structure comes down this wall will be hanging in
the breeze for a while, possibly forever.

John C. Jones, PE
Barnett Associates
Pell City, AL
205-884-5334
205-884-0099 (fax)


-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Burch [mailto:rburch(--nospam--at)conterra.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 6:40 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: Firewall Connection


Jim, and others who mentioned using double walls,

Here is a question  that has always puzzled me, and which I posed the 
last time  the firewall question came up on the list:
What do you do at door openings through the double walls - put doors in 
both walls? I know some firewalls might not have openings, but it seems 
that all of them I have encountered had door openings. I don't think I 
have ever seen two sets of doors right up against each other however, 
like would be required in a double wall.

Rick Burch
Columbia, SC





Kestner, James W. wrote:

> I would recommend using a double firewall in this instance.
>  
> Jim K.
>  
>


******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
* 
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers 
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To 
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you 
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted 
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web 
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org 
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ******** 

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
* 
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers 
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To 
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you 
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted 
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web 
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org 
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ******** 





******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
* 
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers 
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To 
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you 
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted 
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web 
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org 
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ******** 

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
* 
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers 
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To 
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you 
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted 
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web 
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org 
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********