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RE: Joints in concrete floor slab on bar joists

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Several responses note to check the slab as an unreinforced section, as
"plain concrete". Is this permissible for an elevated slab? Admittedly the
weight of the slab is supported by the metal deck but I'm not sure that is
equivalent to the support given a slab on grade. If the metal deck can only
support the concrete dead weight but not  the live load and if the plain
concrete cracks, won't the deck then need to support both the dead load and
live load? Is that a safe design? 
 
I generally don't use "plain" concrete, so I am not clear on what the code
permits in such circumstances. 
 
 
William C. Sherman, PE
(Bill Sherman)
CDM, Denver, CO
Phone: 303-298-1311
Fax: 303-293-8236
email: shermanwc(--nospam--at)cdm.com

 ________________________________

	From: Stuart, Matthew [mailto:mstuart(--nospam--at)schoordepalma.com] 
	Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 2:27 PM
	To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
	Subject: RE: Joints in concrete floor slab on bar joists
	
	I don't know what your live load criteria is but my hunch is that
when you run the numbers the slab section will check as an unreinforced
section under the provisions of ACI 318 Structural Plain Concrete.

	D. Matthew Stuart, P.E., S.E.
	MASCE/SEI/BPAD
	Senior Project Manager
	Schoor DePalma Engineers and Consultants
	200 State Highway Nine
	Manalapan, NJ 07726
	732-577-9000 (Ext. 1283)
	732-431-9428 (Fax)
	908-309-8657 (Cell)
	mstuart(--nospam--at)schoordepalma.com

	-----Original Message-----
	From: DSmith7367(--nospam--at)aol.com [mailto:DSmith7367(--nospam--at)aol.com]
	Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 4:17 PM
	To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
	Subject: Re: Joints in concrete floor slab on bar joists

	Matthew:

	Thank you for the reply regarding the slab problem.

	The slab is on light metal slabform spanning two feet between bar
joists.  How would you add sub framing?  It would be tough.
	The same with external reinforcement.
	
	Regards,

	Dave Smith

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