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RE: Moment Frames with Slip Critical Shear Connection

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I will respond with several questions of my own:
 
1. Are there "bodies" to support the "theory" that slip-critical bolts must
be used with welds when used at the same faying surface?
 
2. Has ASCE done any testing to prove its "theory" that bearing bolts can be
used at the web combined with welded flanges? 
 
3. If the theory is based on the "assumption" that the bolts will be seated
prior to welding of flanges, what happens in a joint that has load reversal
or axial load? Why don't the AISC requirements state the limitations that
they are based on, i.e. pre-seated bolts? 
 
4. Is it permissible to use rational thought in code requirements or must
everything be proven by testing or "locating bodies"? 


William C. Sherman, PE
(Bill Sherman)
CDM, Denver, CO
Phone: 303-298-1311
Fax: 303-293-8236
email: shermanwc(--nospam--at)cdm.com

________________________________

	From: Carter, Charlie [mailto:carter(--nospam--at)aisc.org] 
	Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:26 AM
	To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
	Subject: RE: Moment Frames with Slip Critical Shear Connection
	
	
	>I guess your concern would be that the flange plate welds
	>might be put into bending until the bolts "slip" into bearing?

	Can anyone show me bodies to support this theory? I mean that
quipped question with honest intentions as it is usually the response I get
to the opinion I gave earlier. Yet I've not seen it and I am yet to have
anyone show me a case when asked. With all of the old A307 and more current
HS bearing joints used in this case, surely we'd have seen something by now
if the theory were of real concern.

	Charlie

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