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Re: Moment Frames with Slip Critical Shear Connection

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If bolts are always in bearing due to dead weight, then why does the
"banging bolt" phenomenon occur ??

Stuart A. Jacobs, P.E.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carter, Charlie" <carter(--nospam--at)aisc.org>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 10:30 AM
Subject: RE: Moment Frames with Slip Critical Shear Connection


> I can bury you in research on joints combining any number of
> combinations of rivets, bearing bolts, slip-critical bolts, fillet welds
> transverse and fillet welds longitudinal.
>
> I'd like you to show me how to erect a beam so that bolts are not in
> bearing due to dead weight. Load reversals are covered under a separate
> requirement in the specification, so need not be used to confuse the
> questions here.
>
> I prefer rational thought. I was asking why you disagree with the
> rational thought that went into the AISC recommendations you questioned.
>
> Let's try to take this back from an escalating contest. I really did ask
> my question at the bottom of this string with the honest intentions of
> finding the evidence on which you and others challenge the
> recommendations. If you're right, you will find no more string supporter
> than me. But all that has been offered to date is theory and opinion,
> which is counter to the long-standing performance record of what is
> being questioned.
>
> Respectfully,
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sherman, William [mailto:ShermanWC(--nospam--at)cdm.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 8:43 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: Moment Frames with Slip Critical Shear Connection
>
> I will respond with several questions of my own:
>
> 1. Are there "bodies" to support the "theory" that slip-critical bolts
> must
> be used with welds when used at the same faying surface?
>
> 2. Has ASCE done any testing to prove its "theory" that bearing bolts
> can be
> used at the web combined with welded flanges?
>
> 3. If the theory is based on the "assumption" that the bolts will be
> seated
> prior to welding of flanges, what happens in a joint that has load
> reversal
> or axial load? Why don't the AISC requirements state the limitations
> that
> they are based on, i.e. pre-seated bolts?
>
> 4. Is it permissible to use rational thought in code requirements or
> must
> everything be proven by testing or "locating bodies"?
>
>
> William C. Sherman, PE
> (Bill Sherman)
> CDM, Denver, CO
> Phone: 303-298-1311
> Fax: 303-293-8236
> email: shermanwc(--nospam--at)cdm.com
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Carter, Charlie [mailto:carter(--nospam--at)aisc.org]
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:26 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: Moment Frames with Slip Critical Shear Connection
>
>
> >I guess your concern would be that the flange plate welds
> >might be put into bending until the bolts "slip" into bearing?
>
> Can anyone show me bodies to support this theory? I mean that
> quipped question with honest intentions as it is usually the response I
> get
> to the opinion I gave earlier. Yet I've not seen it and I am yet to have
> anyone show me a case when asked. With all of the old A307 and more
> current
> HS bearing joints used in this case, surely we'd have seen something by
> now
> if the theory were of real concern.
>
> Charlie
>
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