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RE: "American Institute of Engineers"

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Michael:

I will go even further than Dave.  Personally, I have no desire what so
ever to waste water treatment plant design, ground water flow problems,
environmental system design, drainage design, etc.  I _LIKE_ the "small,
limiting" scope (boy, is that a loaded comment) of structural engineering.
About a "civil" as I will get is that I know and understand much of
geotech stuff, which allows me to better understand a report that I might
get from a geotech engineer.  I also kind of know road design...but that
is more for personal knowledge rather than professional work.

So, I will revel in being "limited" as JUST a structural engineer. ;-)

Although, I will point out that technically, I am a civil engineer by
training as the school that I went to was an ABET accreditted civil
engineering program.  Furher more, from a "technical" point of view, my
home state (Michigan) does not differentiate between disciplines.  We are
all Professional Engineers (assuming that one is licensed, of course).  In
terms of the licensing laws in Michigan, one can technically practice in
any discipline.  From a practical point of view, however, the board does
keep track of which exam you took, so you had better be practicing in the
your area of expertise (i.e. it is more along the lines of an
administrative rule).

And to give the other side of the arguement...the simple truth is that
many disciplines of engineering have gotten very specialized.  There are
many "structural engineers" (i.e. they do structural engineering day in
and day out) who don't know squat about seismic structural design, so how
would a "civil engineer" (i.e. who does a broad range of civil work but
only occasionally does structural engineering) be in a position to keep up
with all the changes/advances in structural engineering?

And, last, like Dave, I am proud to be a structural engineer (OK, time to
find the modesty switch and turn it back on).

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI


On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Dave Adams wrote:

> Michael,
>
> I appreciate your question and I'll try to give a (somewhat) "humble"
> response.  I'm proud of the title "structural engineer" because it
> defines exactly what I do:  Engineer structural systems.  Speaking for
> myself, I feel no limitations whatsoever, EXCEPT for MY OWN imagination
> and drive.  I don't know about you, but I continually find new things to
> study (advanced material analyses, fracture mechanics), find exciting
> practical solutions to a problem that I like to share with others, and
> review principles learned in and out of college in order to stay fresh.
> There are PLENTY of wonderful things to do and learn WITHIN this
> profession alone, and it truly is exciting!
>
> In fact, down the road I might even study the design of bridges, but I
> would STILL proudly carry the title "structural engineer", NOT because
> I'm such a great guy (far from it), but because this is such a GREAT
> profession!
>
> Take care,
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mludvik(--nospam--at)hardesty-hanover.com [mailto:mludvik(--nospam--at)hardesty-hanover.com]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:09 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: "American Institute of Engineers"
>
>
>
> Just to play devil's advocate, why would you want to be called a
> structural engineer anyway? If they did away with all specialization all
> together and just called every engineer an Engineer, it would be far
> less limiting in the types of work you can do.
>
> I would say that I am currently a "structural engineer", although in the
> past I have worked as both automotive and transportation engineers, and
> in the future I expect to do many other kinds of engineering, especially
> things like drainage and road design. I would not like to be prevented
> from doing civil engineering because I am labeled a "Structural
> Engineer".
>
> Michael Ludvik
> Bridge Seismic Engineer
> Hardesty+Hanover
>
>
>
>
>
>              "Dave Adams"
>
>              <davea@laneengine
>
>              ers.com>
> To
>                                        <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
>
>              08/03/2004 10:38
> cc
>              AM
>
>
> Subject
>                                        RE: "American Institute of
>
>              Please respond to         Engineers" (Scott)
>
>              <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.or
>
>                     g>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott,
>
> I'm sorry to break this to you, BUT UCSD's structural engineering
> program IS, in fact, ABET accredited.  Please follow the link (I think
> there might be a couple of additional clicks):
>
>
> http://www.abet.org/accredited_programs/engineering/schoolstate.asp
>
>
> Therefore, your statement is NOT "100% true".  However, I agree that
> "one of the BEST programs" could be interpreted as personal and biased
> ... Not worth debating.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:15 PM
> To: SEAINT - Messages
> Subject: Re: "American Institute of Engineers"
>
>
> Dave:
>
> The claim that "...one cannot received a degree in structural
> engineering." likely refers to the fact that there is no such thing as
> an ABET accreditted undergraduate degree in structural engineering.  All
> ABET accreditted undergrad degrees will either be in civil engineering
> (sometimes also referred to as civil and environmental engineering
> depending on the school) or architectural engineering.  One can
> SPECIALIZE in structural engineering within a either a civil or
> architectural engineering program.  It is 100% true, however, that ABET
> does NOT has any accreditted structural engineering degrees, which is
> what virtually all (if not all) state licensing boards use as their base
> requirements for licensure (i.e. the ABET part).
>
> This is not to say that somewhere on a degree it may or may not mention
> structural engineering, especially if it is a graduate degree (as there
> is not equivalent to ABET for grad degrees to my knowledge).
>
> So, the point is that you will have received a "generic" civil or
> architectural degree for an undergrad degree in the US (as all or
> virutally all engineering degrees are ABET accreditted).  You may (or
> may
> not) have spent a significant of your time taking structural engineering
> classes (more so in architectural engingeering programs than civil
> engineering programs from my understanding), but you still had to take
> some minimum number of classes outside of structrual areas that were
> aimed at meeting the ABET requirements for the program.
>
> I will stay away from the "one of the BEST programs" debate as that
> usually turns into a fruitless arguement of personal opinions (as most
> will tend to think that their school is the best or one of the
> best...myself being no exception <grin>).
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott
> Adrian, MI
>
>
> On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Dave Adams wrote:
>
> > Colleagues:
> >
> > Has anyone heard more news on the "American Institute of Engineers"
> > announcement that the title "structural engineer" should be deleted
> > from the American lexicon regarding professional titles?  This is from
>
> > a briefing of theirs dated March 19th, 2002 ... the reason given is
> > that one cannot receive a degree in structural engineering.  This
> > claim, however, is ABSOLUTELY FALSE:  My degree from the University of
>
> > California, San Diego is specifically titled "structural engineering"
> > and happens to be one of the BEST programs nationwide.
> >
> > Curious to see if there are any legs on this idea and what your
> > thoughts are.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dave K. Adams, S.E.
> > Lane Engineers, Inc.
> > 979 N. Blackstone Street
> > Tulare, CA 93274
> > PH:  (559) 688-5263
> > FAX: (559) 688-8893
> > E-mail:  davea(--nospam--at)laneengineers.com <mailto:davea(--nospam--at)laneengineers.com>
> >
>
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