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Re: Old Seismic Values

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Harold,

        I understand.

        Good luck to Jason!

Regards,

H. Daryl Richardson

Harold Sprague wrote:

> Daryl,
>
> If this were a civilian project, there is a building authority.  It sounds
> like this is either a DoD or DOE project.  The Federal Government people get
> what they perceive as an absolute order from above, and they have to pass it
> on down the line.  Jason is the one that has to try to bring reason to the
> process with his client.  It is not an easy job to explain something like
> seismologic probabalistics and deterministic floors to a Federal Government
> program manager.  And the manager then has to be ble to bring this back up
> the chain to the guy pulling th strings.  It can be done.  I have gone
> through this exercise with Federal managers.  Some times it goes easy, some
> times it takes months to resolve.  Some times you can be forced into the
> wrong solution, and then when it doesn't work (as you predicted), you still
> take the heat.
>
> Regards,
> Harold Sprague
>
> >From: Daryl Richardson <h.d.richardson(--nospam--at)shaw.ca>
> >Reply-To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> >To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> >Subject: Re: Old Seismic Values
> >Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:17:18 -0600
> >
> >Jason, Harold,
> >
> >         This sounds more like a political problem then a technical problem
> >to
> >me.  I don't know very much about the different technologies involved here;
> >but
> >I do know that political problems often respond better to political
> >solutions
> >than to technical solutions.
> >
> >         Might you not save a lot of time and effort by getting a letter
> >from the
> >Building Authority Having Jurisdiction stating what will and what will not
> >be
> >accepted for the project?  Most businessmen won't get their backs up and
> >fight
> >this kind of directive.
> >
> >         Another possible solution is to provide two sets of calculations
> >which
> >show that both codes are met.
> >
> >Respectfully submitted,
> >
> >H. Daryl Richardson
> >
> >Harold Sprague wrote:
> >
> > > Jason,
> > >
> > > You have got a bit of homework to do.  This is normally in the domain of
> > > seismologists.  But if you have the marching orders, the following is
> >your
> > > homework:
> > > * 1994 NEHRP and Commentary
> > > * 1997 NEHRP and Commentary
> > > * 2000 NEHRP and Commentary
> > > * 2003 NEHRP and Commentary
> > > * Neotectonics in Earthquake Evaluation, Krinitzsky and Slemmons,
> >Geological
> > > Society of America
> > > * DOE STD 1020-94, Natural Phenomena Hazards Design and Evaluation
> >Criteria
> > > for DOE Facilities
> > >
> > > Papers:
> > > * The Hazard in Using Probabilistic Seismic Hazard Analysis for
> >Engineering,
> > > Krinitzsky, Environmental & Engineering Geoscience Winter 1998
> > > * USACE Paper S-73-1, State of the Art for Assessing Earthquake Hazards
> >in
> > > the US, Report 29, Krinitzsky
> > >
> > > The NEHRP documents were developed by the BSSC
> >http://www.bssconline.org/.
> > > Some of their documents are available on line.  Some of the older ones
> >will
> > > probably not be available on line.
> > >
> > > If it were up to me, I would call Geomatrix, URS, USACE, or USGS in
> >Boulder.
> > >   You will find guys like Maury Power, C B Crouse, Ellis Krinitzsky, E V
> > > Leyendecker, Art Frankle, Ted Algermissen, and Dave Perkins who are the
> >real
> > > movers in the field.  I have been envoloved in seismic engineering for
> >about
> > > 17 years and envolved in code development for about 10 years, I would
> >hire
> > > one of the guys.
> > >
> > > What you are needing was the result of a radical evolution that took
> >place
> > > over a 10 year period.  In the early days the Algermissen and Perkins
> >charts
> > > were what was used for zone development and were 20 years old before we
> >went
> > > to true seismic spectral ordinates.  Ted Algermissen first proposed a
> > > seismic spectral ordinate chart in about 1995.  It just took us a while.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Harold Sprague
> > >
> > > >From: "Jason W. Kilgore" <jkilgore(--nospam--at)leok.com>
> > > >Reply-To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> > > >To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> > > >Subject: RE: Old Seismic Values
> > > >Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:21:17 -0500
> > > >
> > > > > I don't know why you are even trying to use the old data.
> > > >
> > > >Because the client said, in effect, "Thou shalt use this document in
> >your
> > > >design".  The document specifically states the acceleration and
> >velocity
> > > >values I gave earlier.  I *know* that the values are wrong; my problem
> >is
> > > >that I have to explain to the client why they're wrong, how much
> >they're
> > > >wrong, what are the right values, and why they are the right values.
> > > >
> > > >In order to do this efficiently, I need to completely understand
> >exactly
> > > >what the old values are, and how they relate to the new values.
> > > >
> > > >Again, I realize that these are very low numbers, but the difference in
> >the
> > > >report value (5%, 475 yr. return) and new values (2.1%, 475 yr. return)
> > > >could mean the difference between adding bracing to all mechanical
> >units or
> > > >strengthening existing 20' tall URM shear walls (in plane and
> > > >out-of-plane).
> > > >
> > > >---
> > > >Jason Kilgore
> > > >Leigh & O'Kane, LLC
> > > >Kansas City, Missouri
> > > >
> > >
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