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RE: ACI 530-02/ASCE 5-02/TMS 402-02 Experts

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Barry:

Harold has already provided you with some good comments.  I will add to
his comments that historically it was not permitted to support any masonry
on wood construction with some very limited exceptions.  A good example is
in the 1997 UBC (Chapter 21, I believe but don't remember for sure as I
don't have it right in front of me).  I believe (going from memory here)
that older versions of the MSJC (ACI 530, etc) had similar
restrictions/limitations, but that changed in the 2002 MSJC.  As I am
currently out of town, I don't have the 2002 MSJC in front of me at the
moment, but I will endevour to remember to look at it when I get home and
see if they have any relevant commentary for that section.

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI


On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Barry H. Welliver wrote:

> I'm just up from my nap.
>
> I appreciate your insight on this matter Harold. I was afraid there was
> "thinking" along this line. By your comments, I presume there is little
> explanation of this in the new commentary and applaud your intention to
> follow through at your code development meeting.
>
> My own experience with code change proposals has reinforced the need for
> good commentaries to help the users grasp a changed or new provision. I also
> realize how difficult writing those commentaries can be. Perhaps if the
> proponents where required to provide verbiage for the associated commentary
> (to be published at the same time) the essence of the arguments would also
> have to be agreed to.
>
> I try to keep copies of the code change proposals specifically because they
> contain information about the logic of the proposition. I'm familiar with
> this in the IBC process. Is there a similar source for ACI/ASCE/TMS
> approvals?
>
> Thanks again for being a well-spring of information for this listserv.
>
> Barry H. Welliver
> barrywelliver2(--nospam--at)earthlink.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harold Sprague [mailto:spraguehope(--nospam--at)hotmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 12:05 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: ACI 530-02/ASCE 5-02/TMS 402-02 Experts
>
> Barry,
> I happened to be awake during the time that this was discussed in some of my
>
> seismic code development participation.
>
> This was a reaction to a lobby by the residential building community.  Prior
>
> to this, it was prohibited to support ANY masonry from wood.  The resulting
> code was a compromise.  But masonry should not be supported by wood if the
> masonry is 12 ft from grade.  The argument presented at the time had nothing
>
> to do with the weight supported by wood.  The argument presented was for
> prohibition of a falling hazard.   I am sure that I could design wood to
> support much more than what the code infers.  We have been remiss in
> Commentary development.  I will make it a point to discuss this at our next
> code development meeting... right after my nap.
>
> Regards,
> Harold Sprague
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Barry H. Welliver" <barrywelliver2(--nospam--at)earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> >To: "Seaint Listserv" <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> >Subject: ACI 530-02/ASCE 5-02/TMS 402-02 Experts
> >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:54:06 -0600
> >
> >First of all I have to say keeping up with "code changes" is adding grey
> >hair on a daily basis now.
> >
> >
> >
> >An exception in section 6.2.2.3.1.5 allows support of masonry veneer on
> >wood
> >framing provided that the masonry has an installed weight of 40 psf or less
> >and height of no more than 12 ft.
> >
> >
> >
> >  My understanding of the 12 feet is a veneer weighing less that 40 psf up
> >to
> >that height (i.e. 40 psf x 12 ft.) is the maximum load allowed for wood
> >support. It has been suggested that this means masonry weighing 40 psf
> >cannot be installed higher than 12 above the ground. If this (second
> >suggestion) is correct, I'd like to know.
> >
> >
> >
> >Secondly, if this provision is intended to limit the weight of masonry
> >being
> >supported (and that's a big if), then would a single stone (such as a
> >lintel, jamb or sill stone) which has a density exceeding 40 psf but weighs
> >significantly less than 40 psf x 12 feet, be "acceptable" as a rational
> >interpretation (and hence be supportable on wood framing).
> >
> >
> >
> >Thanks for any help on understanding this "new" provision. As you might
> >tell
> >from my "inexperience" with ACI 530-02, I've yet to get this resource and
> >associated commentary.
> >
> >
> >
> >Barry H. Welliver
> >
> >barrywelliver2(--nospam--at)earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >
>
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