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RE: Eagle Engineer

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Title: RE: Eagle Engineer
Having been raised in the south and having worked in the north for the past 5+ years I can tell you (again from my own personal experience as that is really all most of us can relate to anyway) that in general people in the north seem immensely more bigoted, racist and segregationist in the north than the current status of the majority of the south.  I have noted that most people in the north talk a good talk but rarely walk the walk.  In the south we have had to learn to do both. And if it makes you feel any better Mr. Kester responded privately to me indicating that he understood I was just making an observation.
 
You know it is tough enough getting clients to select consultants based on qualifications instead of fee so it is very frustrating to see a governmental agency put out an RFP that actually goes to the trouble of requiring the selection of a short list based on a technical proposal (i.e. qualifications) before the fee envelopes are even opened yet at the same time mandates some arbitrary minimum MBE/DBE percentage of participation.  It just seems counter productive...either select a firm/design team based on qualifications or not.
 
As my grandfather use to always say, two wrongs don't make a right.
 
Matthew Stuart
 
PS - as you indicated you really don't know me so shame on you for calling me a racist. Maybe you should have also "checked" yourself before you sent me your email.


From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
Sent: Tue 9/14/2004 5:00 PM
To: Stuart, Matthew
Subject: RE: Eagle Engineer

I apologize if I get a little annoying in this response...

I am wondering how your 30 years of experience relates to a particular
situation that you likely know very little about.  I think that Andrew's
(as he kind further articulated in another post) was your "jump to a
conclusion" based upon the appearance that this situation met the same
criteria as those in your 30 years of experience even though you had no
real "evidence" to back up that assumption.  As a "counter-example", I am
sure that you would be little insulted by someone who in their 30 years of
experience had learned that people who made such comments as you did were
bigotted or racist (NOTE: I _DO NOT_ think such a thing of you since I
don't really know you, but know that there are people that would make that
assumption).

To be honest, the same thought crossed my mind as what you articulated (I
don't have 30 years of experience but I have experienced it), but I did
not articulate it largley because I checked that thought quickly as I
realized that I know nothing about this particular situation.  Does "it
look like a duck and quack like a duck" (i.e. look and sound suspicious)?
You bet.  But, contrary to the saying, it is NOT necessarily a "duck".
Now, in being honest that the same thought crossed my mind, I must also be
honest that _IF_ I had articulated that thought aloud to the list, then I
would have also expected a response back like Andrew's.

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI


On Mon, 13 Sep 2004, Stuart, Matthew wrote:

> However insulting you may find my comment to be it is based on my own personal observations over the past 30 years or so during my private practice all over the U.S.
>
> Matthew Stuart
> Structural Dept. - Manalapan
> 732-577-9889 x1283
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Kester [mailto:akester(--nospam--at)bbma.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 2:14 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Eagle Engineer
>
> I did not see on his website where he claimed to be a PE, but I do like Cliff's theory. Perhaps between memorizing hundreds of plays and watching hours of tape in between practices, he is running some RAM models on his lap top.
> "Maybe the guy is actually participating in some project work, I don't = know. But more than likely he is just a majority owner, which allows = his firm to satisfy any DBE or MBE requirements for projects that in = turn puts the other guy in the picture to work."
> However, this comment I find to be a bit presumptuous and insulting, as if to say this guy is only listed as an owner for a minority handout. If it was a white guy doing the same thing everyone would comment on his entrepeneurialship. A better point may be that he uses his fame, status, and million dollar paychecks to invest and promote a healthy business. Seems pretty smart to me whether he is there every day or not, he is carving out a nice career for himself when his body gives out and he has 30 more years to fill up with something besides golf and frozen drinks next to the pool.....
> Andrew Kester, PE
> Longwood, FL
>