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Re: Flat Floor

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Harold,

Thanks for the information.  Do you have a contact name and number for
me?  I did a google on Kalman Company but did not come up with a concrete
contractor on the first few pages.

Rich

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:57:20 +0000 "Harold Sprague"
<spraguehope(--nospam--at)hotmail.com> writes:
> Richard,
> 
> Bill pointed out the web site that was developed by the Face Company 
> for 
> measuring floors and getting them to comply with the F numbers that 
> were 
> developed by the Face Company using measuring machines developed by 
> the Face 
> Company, for money that your client must send to the Face Company.  
> I don't 
> have too much heart burn with the Face Company for their efforts.  
> But they 
> are a bit self serving.
> 
> But I do have a concern as to the inappropriate application and 
> expense.  
> One of the largest slab on grade contractors is the Kalman Company.  
> They 
> can do super flat floors, but you have to ask if it is necessary.  
> For 
> automated rack storage systems you may be able to make that 
> argument.  But 
> for conventional warehouses, I think that the old ACI 117 and a 
> prequalified 
> contractor are adequate for flatness tolerances.
> 
> I think that the owners money is better spent on eliminating control 
> joints, 
> proper armoring of expansion joints, and proper detailing to avoid 
> vertical 
> differential movement of joints in fork truck traffic lanes.  Damage 
> to fork 
> trucks due to deterioration of control joints and maintenance of 
> unnecessary 
> control joints are where your real costs happen.
> 
> Call Kalman.  They will install a slab that will get the performance 
> that 
> you need without arbitrarily specifying an F number and incurring 
> expenses 
> that you don't need.  Don't limit yourself to Kalman.  Call other 
> GOOD 
> concrete floor contractors, and get their opinions.  Craft a 
> specification 
> that gets you the performance that your client needs.  I just happen 
> to have 
> the most personal experience and confidence in the work that Kalman 
> does.  I 
> also like the way they eliminate most joints in a slab on grade.  
> They also 
> have a top quality control system.
> 
> As Face points out, what do you do if the slab does not comply?  
> That is 
>  it gets ugly, the Owner will not be happy, and lawyers spring up 
> from 
> the underground abyss in which they reside to bring devastation to 
> those who 
> live in the light;>)  Be well and stay away from the dark side.
> 
> Regards,
> Harold Sprague
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: richard lewis <rlewistx(--nospam--at)juno.com>
> >Reply-To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> >To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> >Subject: Flat Floor
> >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:03:54 -0500
> >
> >I have a client who has asked for an F100 floor for a warehouse I 
> am
> >designing.  I'm not sure what he is asking for and want to ask 
> some
> >questions.
> >
> >Now I do know about the flatness number system, the overall values 
> and
> >the minimum local values for Ff and Fl.  I assume he will want an 
> overall
> >value of F100.  The question I have is the standard for classifying 
> the
> >floor.  I have a few articles form magazines I have clipped out 
> over the
> >years and I see different values for classification.  I have one 
> article
> >that calls an Superflat floor of F values of 50 and another article 
> that
> >calls a Superflat floor of F values of 100.  Are there standards 
> defined
> >in the ASTM E1157 that define Flat, Superflat, etc?
> >
> >The overall flatness number is typically 50% higher than the local
> >numbers.  With a F value of 100 for overall system the local 
> numbers
> >would be 67.  Is this what is typically specified for Superflat 
> floors?
> >
> >The next question has to do with the practicality of the floor.  It 
> is a
> >warehouse with pallet racks.  The racks are about 20 feet tall.  
> Forklift
> >traffic is the reason for the flatness.  I know the Owner is the 
> one who
> >needs to determine their personal needs, but would an F50 floor 
> work just
> >as well for this type of use.  Has anyone else had experience with 
> lower
> >flatness numbers working well with fork trucks and racks?
> >
> >Appreciate any insight you may be able to give.
> >
> >Rich
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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