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Re: job security, not politics

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Maybe you can start you get a glimpse of what kind of a slippery slope this kind of discussion is.  To mix metaphors, it's like trying to tap dance through a minefield.
If you mention a name or party (positively or negatively) someone on the other side will take offense.  Other partisans chime in & soon it's a mess.  There have been some very hard feelings generated in past exchanges & it is detrimental to this community.

As Jen points out, if you can just stick to facts or ask sincere, non-judgemental questions (and not mention names or parties) there shouldn't be a problem. But sadly there usually is.
Chuck Utzman, P.E.

Jen Wadsworth wrote:

Gee, Andrew… no question about where you stand.  If it’s not political then why do you have to bring any names or parties into it? why not just discuss the issues and not point fingers? I think that is what the heart of the matter is. I think we’re all agreed that if there is an issue related to structural engineering then it’s game- including job security.




-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Kester [mailto:akester(--nospam--at)]
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 3:18 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject: job security, not politics


Let me know if we can't discuss this stuff please, I am not sure, so forgive me if I did not get the point. I also want to know if we can or cannot discuss the weather, business strategies, football, what it is like to live where we are, how so and so is doing, etc., because those all get posted too. I say we all can scan the list for topics we want to read about, so who cares. I can go through the digest list in 10 minutes if nothing hits my curiousity button.


The last time I checked we are all structural engineers who depend on this line of work for our living. Therefore who cares how someone feels on the million other issues that divide us or bring us together. No one person will ever agree with any other person on every issue. I don't care your party affiliation, you want your job and to keep your salary on the rise, right?


I am a young, skeptical, pessimistic, neutral/ non-party affiliated engineer. I watched the debate and got really no answers about anything except they both married up and love the women in their lives. Great. My plan is to now marry Paris Hilton and run for senate.


I think our whole political process could use an overhaul. Anyway, both candidates looked in the eyes of the camera and said they cannot and will not stop outsourcing. Encouraging. Both said let's reduce corporate advantages on outsourcing to level the playing field, which we can all agree on. But the thing that bothered me the most is this attitude that it is the 21st century and we should just give up the blue collar jobs in factories and everyone go to a community college or get more training. WHAT??! Improving education is our way to stop outsourcing? Why not say the solution to the war on terror is paint guns and water balloons?


I have buddies from high school that for whatever reason never made it to college and never will. God makes all types with all abilities and we all use or don't use them differently. We need all types for our society. But I don't think WHITE COLLAR outsourcing was mentioned or is a real concern. So I have to go get a PHd to design a 2 story building to compete with cheap foreign soil labor? Do the guys with BS in Computer Sci who got laid off from IBM need to go back to school too?


So let's not mudsling, call each other names, point fingers, or talk about other political issues that are not DIRECTLY related to SE , and I think everyone will be cool with some political discussion as it concerns structural engineering. If someone goes to fact check, and finds out, for EXAMPLE, that GW signed a bill that limits the outsourcing of white collar professional services, then let us know. JUST THE FACTS MA'AM!


Andrew Kester, PE

Longwood, FL