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Re: Post tensioning Detailing-Where and how?

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I know of a contract dispute that arose because a Canadian
born engineer used "will" instead of "shall".  the offending
clause read something like ""XX will be provided" or "so and so
will provide".

On 31 Oct 2004 at 11:10, GSKWY(--nospam--at) wrote:

> No,  if the request came from "Tom Jones", the third paragraph would
> not have been struck out,  it would have read:
> "Why would anyone want to hire you, when they can have the same work
> done by someone in India for 1/5th of the price. That person certainly
> couldn't do any worse than you. "
> Because I support outsourcing.  But I support outsourcing only when
> the company doing the outsourcing can afford, and considers it
> necessary, to invest sufficient time and money to ensure the
> individuals doing the work produce a product of the required quality. 
> I do not think this necessarily "takes jobs away from Americans", 
> With respect to structural engineering, I think it can create jobs for
> Americans who are well versed in both the applicable engineering
> principles and the pertinent code requirements. And I think such
> Americans should be well compensated for their knowledge.
> But back to the original post - the request did not come from "Tom
> Jones", it came from "Nagesh Kumar" - the vice-president of
> engineering for this company - "SECAD."  
> And I do not support this kind of outsourcing - outsourcing to Indian
> immigrants. I do not believe it results in a product of the required
> quality, because the cost of the work does not allow the company doing
> the outsourcing to spend enough on quality control.  And if a company
> is outsourcing detailing work to someone with poor English, who has no
> problem doing detailing for post-tensioning, despite the fact he has
> absolutely no understanding of what he is doing, I would hope that the
> company spends quite a bit on quality control.  
> In my opinion, this applies to the placing drawings for a 
> conventionally-reinforced concrete building, as well as the
> installation drawings for a post-tensioned building.  Because my
> safety depends on those drawings.   And this is the same reason I do
> not like having immigrants with poor English working as engineers in
> this country.  Because my safety depends on their ability to
> understand and communicate with others in English.  And in addition to
> being concerned about my own safety, I nominally have some kind of
> responsibility to the general public.  
> And by poor English, I don't mean mixing up "principal" and
> "principle" and "capitol" and "capital."  I mean not knowing the
> difference between the past, present, and perfect tenses, so not being
> able to tell whether something has already happened, is currently
> happening, or is going to happen.  And not being able to communicate
> this to someone else.  And I mean not knowing the difference between
> "this must be done" and "this may be done" and "this will happen" and
> "this may happen."  The words "must" and "may" have legal
> implications, and in that respect they can be subject to
> interpretation.  However, they also have technical implications. 
> There are certain things that must be done to ensure that a building
> is safe. 
> On a side note, however, I seem to be out-of-synch with respect to
> opinions on outsourcing, at least with respect to the participants on
> this list.  Because according to this list, the central issue in
> outsourcing appears to be ketchup.  And all I really know about
> ketchup is that Ronald Reagan considered it a nutritious vegetable.
> I will also note that I have gotten some e-mails disagreeing with my
> opinions on outsourcing.  I can't really tell who is writing them,
> because they are all from yahoo accounts, without names.  But I can
> say with pretty fair certainty that they are not from "native-born
> Americans."  The vocabulary is that of someone who has learned British
> English. 
> Gail Kelley
> In a message dated 10/31/2004 12:28:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gleaneng(--nospam--at) writes: Gail: If the request came from "Tom
> Jones" from New York - your first 2 paragraphs would still be valid
> and the third struck out. The inclusion of the third paragraph has
> weakenend an otherwise very important and well stated point.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: GSKWY(--nospam--at)
> Date: Saturday, October 30, 2004 1:13 pm
> Subject: Re: Post tensioning Detailing-Where and how?
> > I went to the web page for and looked at the resumes
> > of the 'Management Team.' And I guessed, based on both the quality
> > of the English and what was written about the individuals.  
> > 
> > The resume for the 'Vice President Techno Commercial' says he 
> > "post graduated in Engineering Management in USA".  
> > 
> > The Chief Operating Officer "is a Masters in Structural 
> > Engineering and also member of prestigious international 
> > institutes like ACI ( American concrete institute ) and CRSI 
> > (Concrete reinforcing steel institute)." 
> > 
> > The individual who posted the question and someone else are 
> > postgraduates in structural engineering.
> > 
> > But maybe I am wrong,  I am still waiting for answers to my 
> > questions.  Maybe these individuals did not attend graduate school
> > in the US in order to buy their way to green cards.
> > 
> > However, if you think my first two paragraphs are only "sort of
> > relevant" you have never worked in post-tensioning.  Incompetence
> > can get someone killed.  And has.
> > 
> > 
> > Gail Kelley
> > 
> > 
> > >Gail
> > >I think your third paragraph is out of line.  Your first two
> > >paragraphs are sort of relevant, but in the third, you
> > >get personal.  How do you know he is from India and not
> > >a 3rd generation American?  Are you just going by his
> > >name?
> > >Gary

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