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Re: Post tensioning Detailing-Where and how?

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Gail
I know of a contract dispute that arose because a Canadian
born engineer used "will" instead of "shall".  the offending
clause read something like ""XX will be provided" or "so and so
will provide".
Gary


On 31 Oct 2004 at 11:10, GSKWY(--nospam--at)aol.com wrote:

> No,  if the request came from "Tom Jones", the third paragraph would
> not have been struck out,  it would have read:
> 
> "Why would anyone want to hire you, when they can have the same work
> done by someone in India for 1/5th of the price. That person certainly
> couldn't do any worse than you. "
> 
> Because I support outsourcing.  But I support outsourcing only when
> the company doing the outsourcing can afford, and considers it
> necessary, to invest sufficient time and money to ensure the
> individuals doing the work produce a product of the required quality. 
> I do not think this necessarily "takes jobs away from Americans", 
> With respect to structural engineering, I think it can create jobs for
> Americans who are well versed in both the applicable engineering
> principles and the pertinent code requirements. And I think such
> Americans should be well compensated for their knowledge.
> 
> But back to the original post - the request did not come from "Tom
> Jones", it came from "Nagesh Kumar" - the vice-president of
> engineering for this company - "SECAD."  
> 
> And I do not support this kind of outsourcing - outsourcing to Indian
> immigrants. I do not believe it results in a product of the required
> quality, because the cost of the work does not allow the company doing
> the outsourcing to spend enough on quality control.  And if a company
> is outsourcing detailing work to someone with poor English, who has no
> problem doing detailing for post-tensioning, despite the fact he has
> absolutely no understanding of what he is doing, I would hope that the
> company spends quite a bit on quality control.  
> 
> In my opinion, this applies to the placing drawings for a 
> conventionally-reinforced concrete building, as well as the
> installation drawings for a post-tensioned building.  Because my
> safety depends on those drawings.   And this is the same reason I do
> not like having immigrants with poor English working as engineers in
> this country.  Because my safety depends on their ability to
> understand and communicate with others in English.  And in addition to
> being concerned about my own safety, I nominally have some kind of
> responsibility to the general public.  
> 
> And by poor English, I don't mean mixing up "principal" and
> "principle" and "capitol" and "capital."  I mean not knowing the
> difference between the past, present, and perfect tenses, so not being
> able to tell whether something has already happened, is currently
> happening, or is going to happen.  And not being able to communicate
> this to someone else.  And I mean not knowing the difference between
> "this must be done" and "this may be done" and "this will happen" and
> "this may happen."  The words "must" and "may" have legal
> implications, and in that respect they can be subject to
> interpretation.  However, they also have technical implications. 
> There are certain things that must be done to ensure that a building
> is safe. 
> 
> On a side note, however, I seem to be out-of-synch with respect to
> opinions on outsourcing, at least with respect to the participants on
> this list.  Because according to this list, the central issue in
> outsourcing appears to be ketchup.  And all I really know about
> ketchup is that Ronald Reagan considered it a nutritious vegetable.
> 
> I will also note that I have gotten some e-mails disagreeing with my
> opinions on outsourcing.  I can't really tell who is writing them,
> because they are all from yahoo accounts, without names.  But I can
> say with pretty fair certainty that they are not from "native-born
> Americans."  The vocabulary is that of someone who has learned British
> English. 
> 
> Gail Kelley
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 10/31/2004 12:28:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gleaneng(--nospam--at)caribsurf.com writes: Gail: If the request came from "Tom
> Jones" from New York - your first 2 paragraphs would still be valid
> and the third struck out. The inclusion of the third paragraph has
> weakenend an otherwise very important and well stated point.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: GSKWY(--nospam--at)aol.com
> Date: Saturday, October 30, 2004 1:13 pm
> Subject: Re: Post tensioning Detailing-Where and how?
> 
> > I went to the web page for secadsoft.com and looked at the resumes
> > of the 'Management Team.' And I guessed, based on both the quality
> > of the English and what was written about the individuals.  
> > 
> > The resume for the 'Vice President Techno Commercial' says he 
> > "post graduated in Engineering Management in USA".  
> > 
> > The Chief Operating Officer "is a Masters in Structural 
> > Engineering and also member of prestigious international 
> > institutes like ACI ( American concrete institute ) and CRSI 
> > (Concrete reinforcing steel institute)." 
> > 
> > The individual who posted the question and someone else are 
> > postgraduates in structural engineering.
> > 
> > But maybe I am wrong,  I am still waiting for answers to my 
> > questions.  Maybe these individuals did not attend graduate school
> > in the US in order to buy their way to green cards.
> > 
> > However, if you think my first two paragraphs are only "sort of
> > relevant" you have never worked in post-tensioning.  Incompetence
> > can get someone killed.  And has.
> > 
> > 
> > Gail Kelley
> > 
> > 
> > >Gail
> > >I think your third paragraph is out of line.  Your first two
> > >paragraphs are sort of relevant, but in the third, you
> > >get personal.  How do you know he is from India and not
> > >a 3rd generation American?  Are you just going by his
> > >name?
> > >Gary
> 



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