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Re: Terrorism? and live loads

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Skip next two paragraphs to get to live loads.
 
Mandela, in his autobiography, specifically discusses the options he considered available to the ANC.   I believe he discusses 4.  Espionage, armed revolt, and terrorism are the three that come to mind.  My point is not whether or not Mandela chose to be a terrorist.  My point is that the choice was not his.  His choice was dictated by his oppressors.  Maybe intentionally, maybe unwittingly, they allowed him a small prospect of hope.  Reading his autobiography allows one to understand the basis for his actions.  Once this occurs, it becomes extremely difficult to label someone a terrorist.  Rather, it seems more appropriate to ask " who forced this individual/group to resort to terror".  This is not intended as a partisan slam as both parties appear to be in denial on this particular subject.
 
Specific to our current situation,  do we want that oil badly enough to sacrifice our loved ones to obtain it?  It appears that over 1/2 of us feel that we want it badly enough to sacrifice somebody else's  loved ones.  As long as we are able to keep our economic draft in place, we can chose to ignore the issue.  But you know what, to keep the economic draft functioning, we need to keep those republican ideals of oppression in-place and functioning.  
 
Now, discussion turns to live loads.  I believe in one of Jack McCormac's books, on structural steel design, he shows a bunch of students packed together and has a short discussion on the floor loading.  Also mentioned somewhere in the previous discussions on this subject was the stated basis for live loads in ASCE 7.  I can't remember anybody even bringing up the reverse engineering employed by ASCE to substantiate live loads.  Or what the early New York/Chicago codes have to do with our current live loading criteria.  What does it mean to post a live load?  My guess is that the public does not have a clue as to what it means.  From discussions here, it seems that a few engineers may not be so sure.  Should I tell my kids that they no longer can take baths.  Lets see, a foot of water...
 
Now some of you engineers design 3-story wood frame residential on concrete lids.  How do you substantiate the basis for using the design loading = the sum of the individual floor/roof loads.  And the concentrated load = what?  The logic here does not seem so bad, but if we can come up with a basis for the concentrated load requirements -  that would be good. 
 
The preceding two paragraphs were intended to initiate a discussion on  our basis for live load criteria.  Hopefully without reliance on reverse engineering or the reflex of barfing up code provisions.  For example, a stack room is added to an existing office, should the design be for stack wieght plus 20/16/12 (depending on tributary area) psf for the aisles.  Or should we figure that a really good book on rules is found and all the engineers crowd over to have a look.  Then we can then debate how much an engineer weighs and what her/his personal space requirements are.  The bathtub/house,wood frame/concrete lid, and stack room examples all address the same issue.  Any comments?
 
Jack Shapton
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism?


In a message dated 11/3/04 2:59:29 PM, ggg(--nospam--at)bigpond.net.au writes:
Making them forget Nelson Mandela.


I forget, did Mr. Mandela ever cut off anyone's head?

Ralph