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# RE: Brick shelf angles

• To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
• Subject: RE: Brick shelf angles
• From: "Kestner, James W." <jkestner(--nospam--at)somervilleinc.com>
• Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:44:12 -0600

Title: Message
Kevin:

http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/cbd/cbd185e.html

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NTA/is_5_16/ai_101943896

If you have a concrete frame, make sure you take into account axial shortening (creep) of the frame. You do not want the brick veneer taking the vertical weight of the frame.

Jim K.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Below [mailto:kevinbelow(--nospam--at)videotron.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 7:29 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Brick shelf angles

What is the maximum vertical spacing for brick veneer shelf angles ?  The Canadian masonry code S304.1-94, Clause 16.9.4 for empirical design of brick veneers states 11 metres to the first shelf, then a maximum spacing of 3.6 metres.

I would like to be able to use 2 story spacing above the 11 m if possible for a concrete-frame building, total of 5 stories of brick facing.  That would translate to a single shelf angle ( at level 4) instead of 2 (at levels 4 and 5).  And with the price of shelf angles - apparently 225 \$ a metre, about 75 \$ a foot, (does that sound right ? I am still not convinced, but that's what the construction manager says), it's worth doing the research.

The Masonry Institute at http://www.masonryinstitute.com/veneer/section2.4.7to2.4.8a.html  says that the 3.6 metre (12') limit was intended for wood stud framing, I suppose to relieve the shrinkage problems of wood.  Concrete framing has some shrinkage problems too, but normally not as much as wood.

Since the code requirement in Canada is for empirical design, are there any Canadian engineers out there with an opinion on whether this requirement is binding or not ?  If I do a rational analysis and show that the expected shrinkage over 2 stories can be taken up with a single shelf angle, I think that it would satisfy the code, since it would not be an empirical design, and so would not come under clause 16.

I would ask my friendly building official, but we don't have them in Quebec.  So no-one is going to challenge my decision, but I would like to do the right thing anyway.  Some of professional ethics thing I suppose.

Kevin Below, ing., Ph.D.

GÉNÉCOR CIVIL INC.

290, rue Seigneuriale

Beauport, (Québec) G1C 3P8

Tél. : (418) 660-6969 poste 272

Fax : (418) 660-6463

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