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RE: "By The President of the United States of America, A Proclamation"

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Ladies and Gentlemen:


Kinda torn on this one...


On one hand, I enjoyed reading Bill's post of George's proclamation on
Thursday morning and I thought Bill was simply trying to remind us as to the
history of the beginning of the Thanksgiving holiday. I had no idea that it
was meant to be some sort of commentary on the current political party in
power.


On the other hand, as a descendant of those awful Europeans who brought the
slave trade, smallpox, VD, etc., to the "New World" and began the slaughter
of the so-called "native Americans" that was later picked up by the American
colonists, I feel the need to remind all of you that the current economy and
"freedoms that we as Americans enjoy" are in large part, the DIRECT RESULT
of those tragic events that took place in the 1600's, 1700's and 1800's.


This part of history, while disgusting and barbaric to us now, helped make
this country what it is today.


As far as the involvement of the "divine" goes, I thought this was all
covered by the founding fathers in 1776 and 1789.

That being said, I would like to thank God for helping Deltha O'Neil
intercept Holcomb's pass in the fourth quarter yesterday in "the Jungle."



As Dennis would say, "a most solid argument"
 




David L. Fisher SE PE
Fisher + partners
372 West Ontario
Chicago 60610
 
312.573.1701
312.573.1726 fax
 
312.622.0409 mobile
 
www.fpse.com
-----Original Message-----
From: chuck utzman [mailto:chuckuc(--nospam--at)pacbell.net] 
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:37 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: "By The President of the United States of America, A
Proclamation"

Among the "principles" you extoll was the restriction of suffrage to 
white, male, land owners.  I believe that most would agree that our 
nation's level of consciousness has evolved for the better in the last 
300 years. 

Nonetheless, Dennis is absolutely correct--this forum is not an 
appropriate forum to espouse your political & religious beliefs.  Please 
take your soapbox to some other location.
Chuck Utzman,P.E.

Bill Polhemus wrote:

> Dennis Wish wrote:
>
>> Given the state of affairs and instability in the world today, I believe
>> this post is simply inappropriate for a professional list. A simple 
>> wish of
>> good tidings during the holidays is sufficient. More than this shows the
>> world that the United States believes that our belief based democracy 
>> is the
>> only way of life we recognize and in my opinion, this is the root of our
>> problems.
>>
> Thanks for the comments, Dennis.
>
> I think it is fascinating that the principles on which this nation was 
> founded, are now considered "inappropriate" for public discussion by 
> "modern" ways of thinking.
>
> Given the divide that seems to inflict so much of the discourse 
> between people in our nation today, it makes me that much more 
> thankful to that same God invoked by Pres. Washington, that "our side" 
> won the last election.
>
> With respect, I'm grateful that yours is the minority view. Much as I 
> respect your right to view any acknowledgement of the Divine as 
> "inappropriate," the depth of my disagreement with that point of view 
> cannot possibly be overstated.
>
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