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RE: The failings of (engineering) organizations

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Mr. Johnson
 
    Please forward my response to Mr. Sanchez.
 
   I do not need, nor want anyone talking for me.  If I feel degraded by anyone I will let them know.  This is The United States of America and we DO NOT have a class system here.  I came from a construction family where the money was always tight until there was none.  I was able to get an education and become a Structural Engineer on my own.  If there were a class system here in America  that would not have been possible.  In this country you can go as far as our drive and intelligence pushes you.  Where and who your parents are/were does not make any difference.
   As far as my employer being some kind of "ruling elite" forget about it.  The manager know if I could find a better job I would be out of here in two weeks.  I also know they would let me go in two weeks if they could find someone who can make them more money.  That is the way it is and the way it is suppose to be in The United States of America.  Engineers who work for them self may have difficult managers, as I did when I was self employed, but the rest of us have a symbiotic relationship with the company we work for.
    With the salary I make I am able to invest in other companies.  When I put my money into a company I expect them to take the same attitude as myself when it comes to the companies bottom line.  This is the capitalistic way.  If this way is to harder you can immigrate to some socialistic country.  I can think of a few countries who will take you in but I bet you stay here and run your mouth instead of working. 
    In short I think you are full of SH*T and do not know what the HE*L you are talking about.  
 
Acie Chance  SE
 
PS: I do not like been called a "techie" I am a Structural Engineer besides, I never did like Star Track.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rbengrguy(--nospam--at)aol.com [mailto:Rbengrguy(--nospam--at)aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 7:40 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org; ncseaboard(--nospam--at)seaint.org; ncseadelegates(--nospam--at)seaint.org; seaoiboard(--nospam--at)seaoi.org; aie(--nospam--at)members-aie.org
Cc: education(--nospam--at)engologist.com
Subject: Re: The failings of (engineering) organizations

Attention  fellow engineers,  engineering  society  executives and officers:

Many of you may know I am active in several engineering societies.   I presently serve at  PR chair for www.seaoi.org.   I assist  several other groups  in the PR activities.

In those capacities  I received a great  (too many?)  communications  from  engineers,  technology workers around the  country,  ( even the world!)

Recently the traffic of messages  has increased significantly, what with the  discussion/ recent passage of the H-1b,  L-1  visa  rider to the Omnibus bill.  I'm also receiving messages  in conjunction with the upcoming eWEEK  celebration  ( www.eweek.org,       www.chicagolandeweek.org)

Just today I received the following posting.  Quite frankly it caught me off guard as it raised some  extremely  interesting issues.

I have received permission to   "BOBCAST" it to you  from the writer-author  Rob Sanchez.

Mr.  Sanchez is the webmaster to one of the premier H-1B,  Outsourcing websites
www.zazona.com

Mr.  Sanchez  also  publishes  a periodic newsletter  -  The H-1B/Job Destruction Newsletter.

Please check the following:   http://www.engology.com/E-Newsletters.htm


What follows is Mr Sanchez     view on   "The failing of (engineering) organizations."


as always
Bob Johnson
Silence will NOT protect engineers  (and their engineering societies)
Apathy is lethal





////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


One of the major failings of organizations like
IEEE, AEA, NSPE, PG, NCSEA, ASCE etc. is that they don’t understand that there is class warfare in the U.S. Even worse, they seem to think that engineers are somehow part of the management or executive classes, or what we refer to as the ruling elite. Engineers often trick themselves into believing that they can avoid traditional labor conflicts with their employers because they have an illusion that they are members of the executive class.

The tech community needs to understand where they are in the class system before they can understand how to solve their employment problems. Engineers and techies probably are a class above the Joe Six-Packs that earn their living by manual labor but and that's due mainly to their white-collar status and higher salaries - it's not because they have decision making authority or because they have control of their fate in the labor market.

I see no hope that these organizations will ever help technical workers until they understand that they aren't part of the management or executive classes. In the eyes of executives engineers are nothing but highly paid grunts, and that will never change. Unfortunately most techies have deluded themselves into thinking they are part of the executive class, so perhaps the orgs are just reflecting the delusions of their members.

I don't think technical organizations can get rid of their outdated paradigm. They are stuck in a mind-set that will prevent them from ever helping techies as wage earners. The failure to recognize class conflicts in the U.S., and a the inability to understand what class they represent, will doom these organizations from ever helping techies resolve labor issues such as H-1B, L-1, offshoring, wage depression, unemployment etc.



To make matters worse, most of the officers that run technical organizations and associations are members of the management and executive classes. This creates a cultural divide between those who run the organizations and the members who are typically wage earning engineers. Engineers and techies might not understand what causes this cultural divide but it does make the organizations seem irrelevant to them. That’s one of the reasons it’s so hard to recruit members.

If a techie organization was created that understood their place in our class system, and convince their members of the same, they could become a leader instead of just another techie club. Of course they would probably not be able to get members because techies aren't ready to face reality yet. It’s quite a dilemma that I don’t know how to resolve until techies reach some kind of consensus that we are of the worker class.

What we really need is an attitude change, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

Rob Sanchez