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On-topic... engineering list moderation and outsourcing (was RE: The failings of (engineering) organizations)

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Ralph, Daryl, et al.
Lately, the posts on this list have veered into what I see as 'flaming'. On the 'net, that rarely if ever leads to a constructive discussion. The "outsourcing" issue merits constructive discussion.
While a "delete" button works well to eliminate the email messages delivered to my computer, it does nothing to eliminate the messages that are archived on the list server, for years. Months or years from now, these exchanges 'in the moment' may look rather inappropriate. Even now, the flaming that has been happening on this list needs to stop.
All-encompassing negative statements, aka "flamebait" (e.g. "(so-and-so)...hates AMERICA", "...I think you are <expletive-of-choice>"), have no place in a constructive discussion. The purpose of a moderator is to provide the forum in which controversial and relevant topics can be discussed without degenerating into a finger-pointing exercise over the 'net.
I've assumed from the association of this list with and by its membership, that discussions here should be related to structural engineering practice, profession, and science. As pro's we should be able to discuss weighty topics and to tie them in to relevance.
"Outsourcing" is something that will continue to be present in the professional job market into the future. What we have seen occur over the years to the manufacturing sector of the economy in the USA is now a growing factor in the professional and technical services sectors. It's part of the trend toward a global economy. In my opinion, there's no going back, so we're going to have to deal with the hard issues. I hope that when future posts on outsourcing, economy, labor laws, regulations, and yes, government policies affecting our profession are submitted to this list, that we will be able to constructively discuss these tough issues. After all, if we can comprehend slope-deflection equations and the hysteresis loops of structural joints undergoing inelastic deformations, we should be able to apply the same gray matter to issues that economically challenge our professional colleagues. Or am I naive to assume such ability on our part?
If we have an active moderator on this list, I think we need some moderator activity here. If we don't, or if simply time and resource prevent our moderator from actively limiting flaming and keeping discussions on-topic on this list, then we're going to have to do that ourselves. Some 'netiquette' is then in order.
Thomas Honles, SE, PE
-----Original Message-----
From: Daryl Richardson [mailto:h.d.richardson(--nospam--at)]
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 6:33 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject: Re: The failings of (engineering) organizations

Actually, I agree!  And my delete button works very well.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: The failings of (engineering) organizations

Although I can understand why some of this chatter might upset someone, I actually ENJOY the variety of messages, from American history to foundation design to red v. blue to steel studs, etc.  It keeps me from getting bored.  :)

Ralph in CA

In a message dated 12/10/04 3:05:49 PM, tryan(--nospam--at) writes:

Why don't you all just stick to the science of engineering.  This off
topic venting doesn't serve any purpose.  There are other boards where
you can talk about this, however, this is an ENGINEERING LIST SERV.