Need a book? Engineering books recommendations...

Return to index: [Subject] [Thread] [Date] [Author]

RE: Unreinforced foundation walls and PE/SE debate

[Subject Prev][Subject Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Brian,

Thanks for the addtional information on the PE level exam.  As I already
had my PE license in Michigan (took the Civil PE exam to get it) and my SE
license in Illinois (took the Struct I and Struct II exam), I was not
faced with that "initial" part.  As a result, I was not completely aware
how that part (i.e. which exam was required) worked.

At the to the receprocity between Washington and California, that is good
news.  I knew they were in discussions about it, but did not know that
they had reached an agreement.  Looks like that means that once I take the
surveying and seismic exams for the California PE, I won't need to do any
more exams to get a SE in California if I want it.  Yipeee!

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI


On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, Harris, Brian wrote:

> Scott-
>
> A few additions to what you have stated about Washington (just in case everyone's not confused enough...)
>
> 1) The NCEES structural I is not offered in Washington.  So generally speaking, the NCEES civil exam is what people take in WA to get their PE if they intend to go on to take the SE II and SE III exams.
>
> 2) The Washington Dep't of Licensing recently announced that they have come to an agreement with California to accept each other's current SE III exams as equivalent.  So if you're applying for a California SE and you have passed the 8-hour WA SE III, you do not need to take the CA SE III (or vice-versa).  Note that this is the 8-hour WA SE III, which is what is given currently, but up until a couple of years ago it was only a 4-hour test.  Also, you still need to meet any other requirements specific to CA before you get an SE there (e.g. the shorter civil seismic and surveying exams you mentioned).
>
> Brian J. Harris, P.E.
> harris.b(--nospam--at)portseattle.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 11:59 AM
> To: Don
> Cc: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Re: Unreinforced foundation walls and PE/SE debate
>
>
> Don:
>
> With regard to your question about structural licenses exams...
>
> There are 4 structural test out there at the moment (I believe that it is
> still currently 4).  There is the NCEES Struct I, the NCEES Struct II, the
> Washington Struct III, and the California SE exam (aka the Western States
> Exam).
>
> The NCEES Struct I exam is equivalent to the Civil PE exam.  It is a 80
> question (I believe) multiple guess exam.  The only really difference
> between it and the Civil PE exam is that it is _ALL_ structural
> engineering questions.  It is rather easy (in my opinion), much like the
> Civil PE exam is rather easy.  If nothing else, it is certainly the
> easiest of the structural exams.  It is an 8 hour exam.  It is used as the
> "first" step/exam of many of the SE licenses and is also used by many
> states as the PE license exam as an alternate choice to the Civil PE exam
> (i.e. for those that only wish to do structural work).  FWIW, this exam,
> like the Civil PE exam, used to be 4 hours of "short answer" (i.e. write
> out your solution and get partial credit) in the morning and 4 hours of 40
> multiple guess in the afternoon but was changed to the 80 multiple guess
> format a several years ago.
>
> The NCEES Struct II exam is generally the "second" step/exam (not counting
> the EIT) toward getting a SE license in many states that offer such a
> license.  It is an 8 hour "essay" exam.  That is you solve problems and
> write out solutions much like you do in day to day work...i.e. you get
> partial credit.  It is currently a 4 question exam (you get to pick from
> at least a building or bridge set of questions).  It used to be two 4 hour
> questions that you could pass seperately (i.e. when I took it, you could
> pass the afternoon question but fail the morning question and only have to
> retake the morning part), but I believe that it is now pass or fail it
> all.  It is a reasonable hard exam.  The questions are very similar in
> nature to what you will do in the "real" world, except you have serious
> time limitations (you can still get it done in the time allotted, but
> think of it as working on a project with a real tight deadline).
> Basically, if you know the codes rather well (i.e. were to find stuff and
> how to use/apply the code provisions) then you will likely do well.  It is
> DEFINITELY much tougher than the Struct I or Civil PE exams.  In the past,
> the afternoon problem would DEFINITLY have seismic design on it.  I am not
> sure how it is done now that they have gone to the 4 question format.
>
> The Washington Struct III exam is the last part of getting a SE license in
> Washington.  At this point Washington is the only state that uses it that
> I am aware of.  It is a 8 hour exam with 4 "essay" questions on it.  There
> are 2 mandatory questions and then for the final 2 questions you get to
> pick between a bridge question and building question.  It is rather like
> the Struct II exam in over all format (i.e. "essay" problems that you
> write out your solution/calculations and get partical credit), except it
> is even harder.  Most, if not all, the questions have seismic on them.
> FWIW, I believe the passing rate is typically around 5% to 20% (varies
> from year to year).
>
> The California SE exam (aka The Western States exam) is only used in
> California and supposedly is on its way out there as well.  Supposedly,
> the California Legislature is pushing to have a "nationally created and
> recognized" exam used.  So, they may end up using Washington's "system" or
> something much like it.  The exam is a 16 hour "essay" problem exam (i.e.
> write out solutions/calculations and get partial credit)...I believe
> (haven't take it, unlike the others).  From everything I have heard it is
> extrememly difficult, but since I have never taken it, I really cannot
> compare with the others.  If nothing else the 16 hours (two day) is
> daunting.
>
> For most states with a SE license, they require the EIT, the Struct I and
> the Struct II.  I know this is true of Illinois, but I also believe it is
> true of the other states with SE licenses with the exception of Washington
> and California.
>
> Washington requires the Struct II and Struct III.  Since I was not an
> "original candidate" in Washington (i.e. it was not my first license and
> for me it was by reciprosity...at least partially), I am not sure if you
> take the Struct I as part of the SE license process or if you take the
> Struct I to get your PE license.  Since I had already taken the Civil PE
> (for Michigan), the Struct I (for Illinois) and the Struct II (for
> Illinois), I only needed to take and pass the WA Struct III exam to get my
> SE license there (PE license was by pure reciprosity...i.e. fillout the
> paperwork and pay the fee).
>
> California requires the Western States exam (at the moment) to get your SE
> license.  In addition, you must have three California SEs who will act as
> references for you...and you must have at least 3 years (I believe) of
> "structural" experience beyond your PE license (don't know if they will
> consider 3 years beyond your initial PE license or if it must be 3 years
> beyond getting your California PE license...in otherwords, if I got my PE
> license in California this year, would I have to wait 3 years to apply for
> the SE license or could I do it right away since I have had more than 3
> years of experience since I got my PE license in Michigan? Dunno, but will
> likely find out in the future).  And you must have your PE license in
> order to get your SE license (this is true in Washington as well).  FWIW,
> getting your PE license in California is not just a straight forward
> reciprosity...they have two "extra" exams that civils must pass to get
> their PE license...a surveying exam and a seismic exam (both are about 2
> to 2.5 hours long if I recall correctly).
>
> HTH,
>
> Scott Maxwell, PE, SE
> Adrian, MI
>
> On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, Don wrote:
>
> > Stan wrote:
> >
> > "Don't you use the soil pressure and calc. the masonry wall
> > stresses? If you do, you find that reinforcement is required
> > for any height of fill."
> >
> > Not necessarily.  Especially with a larger house, there is a significant
> > dead load placing the wall in compression.  In areas of lesser wind loads,
> > most of this dead load may always be there.  This compression plus the
> > minimal tensile capacity of the mortar joints provide some bending capacity.
> > So, even if an engineering analysis were performed, a wall of a given height
> > and thickness, unreinforced, can withstand  a certain height of fill/lateral
> > load.  I believe that this analysis, plus tons of empirical experience,
> > resulted in the foundation wall tables of CABO, now IRC.
> >
> > PE/SE:
> >
> > I am a PE only (not "only a PE"), licensed in several east coast states.  I
> > took the civil exam, and answered every structural-related question I could
> > find.  It was the first year I heard of the SE exam being offered, but I
> > wanted the flexibility of being able to proctice both civil and structural.
> > Good thing, because I have done both.  I now (for the last 5 years) practice
> > structural only, and am intrigued by the SE license/tests.  I do not think
> > it would benefit my practice significantly, but may add weight in a conflict
> > between two engineers, especially at the legal level.  So, finally to my
> > question:
> >
> > Could someone please expalin to me what the three tests are, how long they
> > are, how difficult they are, and what SE states require which tests?  Could
> > you please reply directly to dbryant61(--nospam--at)cox.net as I am in digest mode.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Don
> >
> > Donald R. Bryant, PE
> > STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY
> > 518 Bushnell Drive
> > Virginia Beach, VA  23451
> > 757-428-6471
> > fax 757-428-6473
> >
> >
> >
> > ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> > *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> > *
> > *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> > *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> > *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> > *
> > *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> > *
> > *   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> > *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> > *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> > *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
> > ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
> >
> >
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> *   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> *   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
>
>

******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
* 
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers 
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To 
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you 
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted 
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web 
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org 
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********