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Re: last off topic, sorry.... Now: Is this really off-topic if it affects your potential earnings?

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Honles, Thomas wrote:
I believe we are sharing the same concerns, but expressing them differently.
In a consumer-driven market like the US, and with corporations answering to shareholders
who seek maximized bottom line profit, the outsourcing phenomenon is simply what an
unrestrained market will do through free trade.
I do not agree with unrestrained markets... I once did. Unrestrained markets are a
"survival of the fittest" strategy, which may be good in eliminating weak members of a
species in nature, but it's a lousy, and yes, unsympathetic way to deal with human
economic relations. For example, unrestrained markets lead to monopolies. Our anti-trust
laws are a safety valve intended to bleed off the economic advantages of economies-of-scale
when they reach the point that they have effectively eliminated the market (e.g. Standard Oil).  
Foreign trade is not an idealized, level playing field. There will be those countries who
will enjoy an advantage over others for a time and may become a monopolistic force, until
restrained. As a citizen and resident of the US, my self-interest coincides with the interests of the US, which is to have the advantage in the global market. Specifically,
as engineering service providers, it is in our interest that we earn a decent livelihood
from our profession. As Americans it is in our interest to have a stable economy, in
which anyone who wants to work, is able to work, and can earn a decent livelihood from
The missing component we haven't discussed in this thread is the ever present need in the
changing American economy for worker retraining, and domestic economic development. Without
a consistent and solid plan to support both workers and domestic enterprise, free trade is
not worth the risk. Hence, education and tax structures must be such that new and existing
workers will always have a means to prepare for or change jobs without risking their
The same self-preservation interests that we have in the US are present in other nations, so diplomatic negotiations of free trade agreements are the vehicle by which the imbalances can be addressed. And we also have to make sure that our government is worker-friendly. Remember the phrases 'kinder and gentler' and 'compassionate conservative'?

Best regards,

Thomas Honles, SE, PE
Los Angeles, CA


I'm sorry - I did misunderstand you. Your last comments are absolutely accurate, but we have a stalemate in this country that prevent fair wages for retraining. The problem lies in the fact that once a company becomes global - as say Citibank has - the empathy for American debt becomes almost non-existent. The perfect example is the current threat to change the bankruptcy laws that don't affect the larger corporations but have to do with honest people who have legitimate financial problems such as medical debt that forces them into bankruptcy and now congress is voting to prevent frivolous bankruptcy claims that includes legitimate ones and threaten not only an individuals home but all of their assets and still does not release them or their family from the responsibility of paying back the debt.
When Visa is charging over 21% and in some cases closer to 30% interest on the money, Citibank not only enslaves those who may have had the ability to pay back their debt, but who became victims and are now enslaved to our government.
When congress changes laws that make life harder for the average hard working American or removes local programs that used to benefit our children, the elderly, the poor but we provide health care out of our pocket to illegals who cross the border to have their children here - something is wrong.

Please don't misunderstand - If I were Hispanic and had an opportunity to obtain health care in the United States even if it meant breaking the laws of this country I would do it. I can't blame those coming over the border, I can only blame those who will not provide sufficient barriers to prevent the flow across the border.

There is no question that we are being squeezed. Bill P. talks about the theoretical issues related to a stable economic world, but he avoids the cause that leads to the effect and this cause is not only human subjugation, it is war and killing and hatred and subjugation of others who have different cultures and believe differently than we do. Don't think that I am trying to defend anyone who attacks us, but I am against the taking of American lives and livelihood to pay for wars that we should never have been involved in.

You can not turn your back on the harm that the elitists have over the shrinking middle class. I can't complain as a property owner, but I can also expand my concerns to my children and their children since I am a grandfather of 7 children. All that they will have at the rate we are going is what I can produce and leave to them in trust so that they will never be in harms way economically or socially.

I see that we do agree and in this I apologize for my misunderstanding of your comments. I just think Bill is off track and has a tendency of lecturing history from a very distant and impersonal position and if he represents the thinking of the right, we certainly are in trouble. When you ignore the people, you can create as much atrocity as you want to make your plan successful - this does not make it right.

I'm sorry for rambling - I guess you said it much better than I did and as hard as I try, I don't think it will penetrate.


Dennis S. Wish, PE
California Professional Engineer
Structural Engineering Consultant


760.564.0884 (office - fax)

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