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Dennis and Bill:

Bill, I stand corrected, but I'm not at my main office and couldn't remember the total intent.

But,  I have submitted an application for this endeavor and feel that it is a good effort to establish some sort of national identity.  Further, I pretty much have a lot of confidence in Ron Hamburger and Stan Caldwell.

In my practice, I do work on a small national scale and some projects overseas. A possible national certification may be of some value to me in the future when I'm dealing with some jurisdictions or clients.  We already see requirements for licensed structural engineers for certain projects that have nothing to do with the particular jurisdiction, such as seismic certification for equipment for utility districts.

I also encourage the list to read the "Structure" magazine.  The last issue address timber design and was excellent, addressing a number of issues that are discussed on this list.

Dennis, I'm sorry that you will never take the S.E. exam.   I believe that it does provide a measure of one's competence.   I second Stan Caldwell's  suggestion about knowledge.

Neil Moore, S.E.
neil moore and associates
shingle springs, california

At 04:01 PM 3/18/2005 -0500, bcainse(--nospam--at) wrote:
Not true Neil.  A colleague of mine with a Civil license got an application in the mail. He asked if I thought it was an easy way to get around the California SE Title restrictions.  I told him no and showed him the PE Act and Board rules. He was quite disappointed.
Bill Cain, SE
Berkeley CA
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Moore <nmoore(--nospam--at)>
To: seaint(--nospam--at); seaint(--nospam--at)
Sent: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:46:18 -0800


I think that this organization is was only addressed to licensed structural engineers, at least here in California. 

Neil Moore, S.E.
neil moore and associates
shingle springs, california

At 07:00 AM 3/18/2005 -0800, Dennis S. Wish, PE wrote:
Bill Polhemus wrote:
Okay, so I get this application in the mail, the so-called SECB asking me to become "certified."

I see that the SECB has a couple of guys on it--Marc Barter and Ron Hamburger--that I actually know. I see that Jeanne Vogelzang, who I recall is the SEAoI secretary or some-such, is the "Executive Director."

So it looks legit.

But what the h*ll is it good for? They want $350 of my hard-earned money--difficult to come by when clients decide they won't pay you. What do I get in return?

Can I call myself an "S.E."? Even without examination?

Or is it just a "fun club" to join, certificate suitable for framing, secret decoder ring type of thing?

Comments are invited. I would like to support such an effort, but there has to be some benefit accruing. I hope you understand.
There is no law or legal requirements that have made changes to the current state and local laws governing th e legality of your license. I have not received these documents and as far as I am concerned this is an attempt to advertise an elite group of engineers who will claim to support anyone who joins their "club" as being qualified to practice. In other words, if you don't agree with them, then at some point in the future when they have the support of a couple thousand engineers they can claim support by the community and start to push their desire to change the national certification laws that they proposed a few years ago.
My advice is to give them the brush off. Anyone who supports change like this is doing so through the back door before others have the chance to understand or review the implications.
I am responding to the message obviously making some assumptions along the way since I have not received this notification and assume that the people who sent it to you are California based that it is an attempt to start up a new program in hopes of raising money that SEA OC needs because of their failure to gain new members and maintain their standard of practice on the renewal of funds that they receive from the members that are left.



Dennis S. Wish, PE
California Professional Engineer
Structural Engineering Consultant


760.564.0884 (office - fax)