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RE: HUD permanent foundations

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The problem is that this is pre-existing and there is
no simple way to determine if there is an insulated
slab underneath.  Though I really doubt that is the
case.

The comments from the real estate agent and the
contractor are (of course) that this is no big deal
and diagonal tie-downs are all that is required. 
Apparently I am the new engineer on the block and I'm
the first one to ever raise a concern about an
uninsulated slab on grade in a frost zone.

If only HUD had a grandfathered construction type
clause...

Jim Wilson
Stroudsburg, PA

--- "Stuart, Matthew" <mstuart(--nospam--at)schoordepalma.com>
wrote:
> There are shallow foundation systems out there (I've
> even used them in North Dakota and Canada) that
> involve sub-grade insulation that basically prevents
> a frost bulb from forming under the footings.
> Typically the footings or slab-edge is turned down
> just enough to enable the insulation to be protected
> by a minimum amount of soil (typically a 1'-0" as I
> recall).
> 
> Matthew Stuart
> Structural Dept. - Manalapan
> 732-577-9889 x1283
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Wilson [mailto:wilsonengineers(--nospam--at)yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 1:35 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: HUD permanent foundations
> 
> I'm caught in a pickle with a family trying to buy a
> mobile home with FHA funding.  The 48' long
> double-wide is set masonry block piers on a concrete
> slab in northeast PA.  There is also an unreinforced
> 8" skirt wall around the perimeter to create crawl
> space.
> 
> HUD's permanent foundation guide seems to require
> that
> frost footings be in place under these structures. 
> Is
> this absolutely the case in any frost zone?  There
> are
> so many trailer parks around here and I would be
> surprised if 1% of them had a real permanent
> foundation.
> 
> The home does have required bracing and tie-downs
> per
> the requirements.  My thought to get out of the
> frost
> footing requirement was to insulate the skirt wall,
> thereby keeping the piers on ground that was not
> seccessptible to frost.
> 
> I appreciate any help I can get on this.  I hate to
> be
> held responsible for tanking a real estate deal!
> 
> Jim Wilson
> Stroudsburg, PA
> 
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